Below is an English transcript of the Arabic interview.

If you would like to read the Arabic version, please click here for a PDF file.

Radio Program ‘The Youth & The Future’.

An interview with Jonar Nader.

Introduction:

Less than two months ago, he issued an English novel filled with mysteries about the world of intelligence and secret weapons. The book title is “Z” and the author is “Jonar Nader”.

Jonar has other books, but this is the first time for him to issue a novel.

Host: Jonar, what are the reactions for the novel so far?

Jonar Nader: I always include my email address in the books that I write, so people are able to send their feedbacks about my books. For this novel, I received emails at 2 and 3 am. I had one reader sending me an email saying: ‘I couldn’t stop reading, it is too late now and I am going to be late for my work’ and another one said: ‘I haven’t read a book for 7 years, but it seems that I going to start reading again because I now think there are books like yours that is worth reading’, so I think the reaction was good.

Host: Were there any negative feedbacks?

Jonar Nader: I was waiting for people to tell me that what I wrote cannot be true, because and based on my experience, I have learned that when you are talking about the future, and what is going to happen in it, then people will think you are crazy.

I always talk about the future, and what I think is going to happen, when there are many people who give lectures and consulting services, and they talk about historical events and information based on what has happened. Listeners think that these people are smart, when what they actually do is telling historical facts that are available and documented. But what is really difficult is asking someone about what is going to happen in Iraq for example, or in technology or in pharmaceutical companies, and everything I talk about, whether in management or in technology, is related to the future, and that is why people finds it difficult to believe it, just like when people didn’t believe it when they were told that we will be able to talk on the phone, or that we will be flying or go to the moon.

The Novel “Z” is about many things people will not believe, but they have to know about, and that is why I included more than 50 opinions of experts in medicine, scientists, ex federal intelligence employees, and the Canadian and American armies.

Someone wrote to me yesterday saying: ‘I liked the book, but I find it difficult to believe it’ I wrote back ‘if you find it difficult to believe, think why ex-intelligence employees talk about all these scary information.

Host (Joking): Did anyone invite you for a cup of coffee? (Referring to intelligence authorities.)

Jonar Nader: Actually I am a very busy man, so no one would be able to have me for coffee unless they kidnap me. Funny thing happens when I am on an airplane, and they announce that that there is going to be a delay, or that the flight has to return, I get scared thinking that someone is looking for me.

Host: So you do think that someone might be after you?

Jonar Nader: Sometimes yes I do. An incident happened Two weeks ago when I arrived to ‘Christchurch’, and I was stopped for 35 minutes for interrogation. They asked ‘What is the reason for your visit?’ I answered them that I came here 100s of times, so why asking me this time? Then I answered that the reason for my visit this time is my book. They asked me ‘What is your book about?’ I answered ‘Terrorism’, so they asked me stupid questions like ‘Where did you go to gather information for your book’, ‘from my travels and from being in war’ I answered, they asked ‘What side were you on? And who did you fight?’ I answered ‘The enemy’ and he kept on trying to find what I meant by ‘Enemy’

At the end I told the guy to stop playing around, and if there is anything specific he wanted to ask me, to just ask.

Another time, I was going to New Zeeland, and there was the issue of the ‘Foot & Mouth’ Disease, when someone sent a message to the prime minister telling her that they have spread that disease and if she didn’t change certain laws, they would spread something else.

Host: And it seems the world cannot take jokes any more.

Jonar Nader: Of course, no one accepts any kind of jokes any more. So yes, I was invited for a cup of coffee many times, but I never found the chance to go.

Host: Alright Jonar, let’s try to summarize the book. It is a long book and we can actually see the movie based on it, actually and before we go on, did you receive any offers to make a movie based on “Z”?

Jonar Nader: I think it is still early for that. There are many people from Romania to Brazil to Russia to Italy, who are currently reading the book, and this thing takes time, especially that no one has that urgency sense to make a movie, the movies we see today were written long time ago, and the contracts for the movies were signed years ago.

Host: Did you receive any offers to translate the novel?

Jonar Nader: Yes and the book actually being read now in Russia, Italy, Brazil and Finland. At the beginning they have to do a market research, because if the book succeeded in the USA that does not necessarily mean that I will succeed in the UK because each country has their own philosophy.

Host: So, the story is about a very clever man who invents a weapon he calls “Zoos”, which is an odorless, tasteless and colorless gas that kills human beings within half an hour. After that, the largest pharmaceutical corporations asked to have this gas.

Jonar Nader: Yes, because they need it.

Host: So, what is it that you are trying to tell us about the pharmaceutical corporations?

Jonar Nader: It is not only about the pharmaceutical companies or other companies alone. We think that we live in a society that loves justice and loves technology, and people believe that we are seeking technological innovations for the sake of goodness, but that is not what we are after, we are only after money. That is why, when we discover a new technology, we don’t think of using it to solve the world hunger, or to find sources of clean water for the millions of people dying due to lack of water, or people dying of starvations in certain areas of the world, when a person in the west eats what is enough for 20 people.
If we have the right technology we can solve water, pollution and soil problems, but what happens is that, people shut down the new innovation doors, and actually use legal support to stop people from using it. Corporations are trying to find ways to spread diseases so we always buy medications they produce.

Host: So we remain always in need for them.

Jonar Nader: True. That is called the Micro Economy, when they tell you that you can buy the medication for 5 dollars. When this medication is not really going to cure you, it may even create more problems for you. Just like when you take your care to the workshop to fix a certain problem, and a week later you find out that there is another problem. The same happens in technology when you take a PC for maintenance. I have computers that are dying, and my friends keeps telling me to get them fixed, but my answer is always that I would rather have them die here than send them to the workshop and allow them to create new problems which I don’t know about.

Host: It is known that all medications have side effects, but in this novel you are saying that this gas can kill based on human’s race or color, which I think is fictional.

Jonar Nader: While writing this book, I was trying to have a minor connection between the future and the present, so the people can understand the story, but during the years spent in writing this book, there use to be a new invention every week to the point I was worried that my book will be outdated.

You say that this information is fictional, and I can tell you that 2 weeks ago there was an argument in the states because of a pharmaceutical company attempting to produce a medication specified for the black Americans. And every week there is something new, however, when I write something like this, people say it is unbelievable, although there are signs all around us telling us that it is possible.

There is a section in the book about medical issues, and I have spoken with the best professors in Australia about it, and they all told me, that if someone placed enough effort, they will be able to achieve what I have spoken about in 5 years.

Leonardo Da Vinci said that people will fly one day, and now we do.

Host: The surprise in the book is that there is a chapter removed from the book, and you say that it was removed by the censorship authorities. Was the censorship done by you? Or did you remove it to increase the suspense, or was it really removed?

Jonar Nader: In the past, I use to write for newspapers and magazines, and then I started writing about technical related topics, and I use to say that technical writing is very difficult, because it takes me years in writing a book, in order to check each and every single detail from the right sources. And I use to envy the authors who write stories and novels, because they can control it the way they want.

I then wrote about management, and found out that it also needs research and confirmation. I have always wished that I can write a story where I can write whatever I want without restrictions, so I thought that writing a story is the best thing. However, and just to be on the safe side, I requested the legal advice, who told me there are certain things i cannot write, I told them ‘Burt it is a story”, they said ‘True, but you have to pay attention to details, as in you cannot be describing people or companies in a ways that would appear as if you are referring to certain people or companies. Beside the information that could appear as recruiting protocols for a revaluation’, and actually someone wrote to me saying ‘Are you sure that this book is not a recruiting training’

Host: So, there were people who had objections regarding the book?

Jonar Nader: Yes, of course, because that means that I am touching a sensitive nerve, if I didn’t, no one would care.

Host: You still didn’t tell us about the deleted chapter.

Jonar Nader: It is not really about a chapter, it is about the many thoughts in it. Ideas where removed from many chapters of the book, such as information that might look as if it refers to a certain company or a certain person, or information that would appear as if I am recruiting people. However, I am going to rewrite this chapter independently, but I am still waiting for some legal matters.

All I really want is for people to think of whether such things can actually happen, and I am not trying to accuse anyone of anything.

Many people consider the future as a surprise, even in the business world, you see people surprised of certain events, although signs of these events are all around us for a long time. Like knowing someone who lives a very unhealthily life, anyone can predict that something bad is going to happen to him health wise.

Host: If we look at the book, we will see that you have spoken about the largest pharmaceutical corporations, even if you did not mention their names, it still can look as if you were referring to them. So, are you worried from the legal consequences in this area?

Jonar Nader: There is a legal issue here, but if you looked at the people who had a legal case against Mc Donald, you would see that Mc Donald were the ones who started the legal case when they sued the people standing at the street corners spreading flyers about Mc Donald and obesity in the largest law case in the British History.

For example, If I said that you have stolen 50 dollars, and they are in your pocket, for you to deny this accusation, you need to show the people what you have in your pockets, and that is why I am not worried, because if they want to sue me, they would have to open up to the public, and I don’t think they want to do that. I actually think they would consider killing me an easier option that suing me for 5 years.

Host: It has been a month and a half since the issuance of the book, are you happy so far with the way the book was handled and distributed? And did you expect it to be in the best seller list? And have you prepared for an American version?

Jonar Nader: I don’t write for the best seller list, and even when I want to chose a movie to watch, I don’t chose it based on the awards it has received, I don’t really care much about that. I don’t think that what sells more is better. And in the book writing industries the best books will not necessary sell more, because this is related to publicity and the ability to spend on advertisement, that is why, I don’t consider the sales volume as the standard of success, but the level of people’s interaction with the book.

And as for the United States of America and the UK, I think the book is going to reach there, but it will take time, because there are many people and many auditorium authorities that the book has to go through, and that is why I have to be patient.

In the past, such things used to take a very long time, people died before anyone read their books. Similar things still happen in our days where you need to wait for the people to understand what you are talking about.

Just like when children are not happy with parents’ orders, and the parents then tell them that they will understand when they grow up. I don’t write to have my books made into movies, I write so people can start understanding, and I have to wait for that to happen, then only they will thank me, and it will not make a difference if that happens when I am alive, or after I die.

Host: Thank you for your time Jonar.

Jonar Nader: Thank you Ghassan.

Host: The Author Jonar Nader. With that we end the youth program “The Youth and The Future”.

Below is an English transcript of the Arabic interview.

If you would like to read the Arabic version, please click here for a PDF file.

Radio Program ‘The Youth & The Future’.

An interview with Jonar Nader.

Introduction:

The author ‘Jonar Nader’ launched a new book whose title is not more than one letter, ‘Z’. The book is a novel about today’s most important problems; terrorism. At the external and internal covers of the book, the reader will find comments from leaders in many intelligence bodies, like CIA, FBI, KPG, and others. Some of these comments said: ‘The book is shocking and sleep depriving’, ‘Jonar’s book makes you wonder where this world is going to?’ and ‘Jonar has created a freighting prophecy’.

The book is made of 450 medium size pages, and was published by ‘Plutonium’. This new book is what we are going to talk about with ‘Jonar Nader’.

Host: Jonar, first allow me to congratulate you on your new book. But before we talk about the details of the book, I would like to ask that since it is known about you to be a non-fiction writer, why did you write a fiction book?

Jonar Nader: In the beginning of the book, I have written ‘This book is a novel for legal reasons’. I love intellectual writing, and I love to write things that would make people think, and I have learned that if I wanted to tell people something important, then it is better to put it in a story, then they will understand it better and faster, also, they will not take it as preaching, which would make them accept it better.

When you start lecturing people, some would listen and some wouldn’t. But when you tell them a story, they will all get along with the story and will want to know the ending of it.

So, this is a matter of style, and a matter of protection as will. People who write political books and get death threats because of them, thinks they are the only ones who get such threats, when in fact I got into problems for writing technical or management books.

The question is not about writing fiction or non-fiction books, when I want to write a new book, I always ask myself if the world needs a new book, or when I listen to a new song, I wonder if the world needs a new song.

I believe books should be about something more than entertainment, or information only, the author of the book should bring new thoughts to the society by his books.

Host: These days, people are taking fiction books seriously, like they did with ‘Deviancy’s Code’ that was a best seller for months. So why is this trend among people?

Jonar Nader: I think that in the past, fiction stories use to be told for entertainment reasons, because people back then didn’t have other entertainment options, and they wanted to learn about the world and to live in a fairy tale story. But now days, people don’t need fiction stories, people are so spoiled that it is very difficult to please them. Even a movie would not be a success if they didn’t spend much money on it. That is why when you are writing a new book, you need to capture people’s minds and hearts, and to do that, you need to tell them something that some will believe and other wont, so you would take them to other worlds while keeping them attached to their real worlds. Which is a very important point, for example, if I told people in the story that I have a car that runs on water, they will not believe or live in the story, because they only know cars the run on petrol. That is why; I need to give them something they can relate to, and give them the proper introductions as will.

The book is made of 450 pages, and it includes more than 3000 thoughts that needs research, and if even one of these thoughts was wrong, I will lose credibility and would fall in what is called ‘Suspension of belief’

Host: Which means that even in fiction books, you need to include real facts. But before we go into the details of the book, there is a digital clock on the cover; it is not a bomb, is it?

Jonar Nader: It took me one and a half year to come up with this cover, and it is the first cover of its kind. It includes a battery, and when it goes through the scanner in the airport, it looks like a bomb with the battery and the microchip and the other electrical gadgets in it. When I was in the airport with copies of the book, I couldn’t wait to see the look on the airport employee when he sees the book on the scanner. They were sitting watching the screen like they do every day, and when my bag went into the machine, the guy jumped on the screen watching, and 5 or 6 people gathered to see what was in the bag. So I thought it seems that I am going to be sent to jail before even publishing the book.

Host: This electronic thing in the cover has something to do with the story, so we will not talk about it.

Jonar Nader: It is a very simple device, but everything in the book is related to the story, and it includes many clues and other things that need attention. It is not just a book you read and put aside, because every page in it makes you think some more.

Host: Ok, let’s summarize the book, and why did you say it is a novel for legal reasons? Were you trying to talk about a certain person?

Jonar Nader: You and I have spoken many times about the fact that I don’t believe what they say about the world has changed after 9/11. So I wondered what could be the worst terrorism act.

Host (Joking): So I gave you the inspiration and the suggestion about the book?

Jonar Nader (Joking): You can say that you gave me the inspiration, but if you said you gave me the suggestion they might send you to jail instead.

But I have said many times that people don’t pay attention to what happens around them, and wondered that if 9/11 didn’t change the world, what could? And then thought what if someone who has my technological knowledge, and the heart and mind of a terrorist who would bomb airplanes from a religious prospective not caring about the law, what can such person do? That was the story of the book, the act of terrorism that no one would think of.

And then asked myself another questions. What if I was offered billions and billions of dollars, or was made a president or an angle for a year or two, and was asked to solve the problems and wars of the world, what would I be able to achieve? Would I be able to solve the wars, the hunger, the slavery, and would be able to save children who die daily of hunger, wars and diseases? The answer was no, I would not be able to find the solution.

So the book was about the worst act of terrorism, and the solution.

Host: So it is a story about a person with all the characteristics you mentioned, and that can be any one from the society.

Jonar Nader: When I hear people talking about a criminal who killed 3 kids, and they call him “animal” or that this was a barbaric act. I wonder why people think that only people with animal inside them would act in such a criminal way. We are all the same, so why when someone does something like that, we think that he is different, that is why the book is about a group of average people who end up doing bad things. Which makes you wonder how the terrorist, the crazy person or the criminal is different than us?

Host: What is also interesting is that I have read many comments about the book for senior employees in intelligence bodies from around the world, saying things like the book is sleep depriving and one actually said ‘Jonar have put the civilized world on notice’ what drove them to say things like that?

Jonar Nader: The history of my writing taught me that people tend not to believe what I write, not only that, that can also be very disrespectful, and time usually prove to them that I am right. Even when I wrote about management, people didn’t believe until they saw the companies that collapsed the corruptions and legal cases, etc…

Now I write about serious matters like politics, technologies, crime, corruption and greed, and I knew people wouldn’t believe, that is why I sent copies of my book to all these officials in the intelligence authorities, churches, hospitals, judges, scientific institutions, and others to get their opinions about the book so I can tell the one who would make fun of me, look at what these professionals and specialists think before you comment, and ask yourself why did they all say that it was a scary book. It means that if the book didn’t scare you, then you should read it again.

Host: The big surprise in the book is that you used countdown in numbering the book pages, and have numbered the chapters from A to Z. Why is that?

Jonar Nader: The reason is that the story is decreasing not increasing, and while the story is coming to an end, I am trying to show that the world is also coming to an end. As for the chapters number alphabetically, this is an important part, because it has something to do with ‘Generation X’ which was the generation who helped the governments by spending their money on purchasing and building houses, etc…. the spenders generation. Then there is ‘Generation Y’, which didn’t like the spending process, instead, they copied everything without paying for it, you see them now copying CDs of music and movies or downloading them from the internet. They don’t have any respect for the intellectual property.

So I wondered, if this is how these generations were, how will ‘Generation Z’ be? The story talks about this generation and how it is going to be a suppressed and controlled generation, because the corporations are not happy with the way ‘Generation Y’ is acting by copying and stealing from them, because that is causing them money. So they are going to develop systems which will protect their products in all areas.

Even in medications, people with chronic diseases will have to take their medications on weekly or daily basis, for the rest of their lives, and this medication is not necessarily going to cure them, it is more likely going to hide their sickness for a while so they continue on taking their medication and paying the corporations.

So, they control people by forcing them to take medications for ever, and limit them by preventing them from taking medications from someone else by designing the bills to only suit the genes and bloods types of the patient.

Host: I noticed that you are giving away your CV to the media with the book, and in it you spoke about how did you fire your first gun when you were 6 years old, were trying to show that you are a tough guy?

Jonar Nader: It is weird to say tough guy, I thought you will say poor guy.

Host: I noticed the poor guy point, but there was an insinuation that you are a tough guy, so are you a tough guy?

Jonar Nader: I am a tough guy using my pin not a gun. I always say that the tough guy is usually the nicest guy, and that you should pay attention to nice and generous people, because from these people are the most dangerous ones. The one who keeps on threatening is not likely the one who is going to do anything, because if you want to do something, do it, don’t talk about it.

I wasn’t trying to say that I was a tough guy, I just wanted to say that the writer of this book is not an ordinary man, and that is why the book is not an ordinary book, it is a special book. And that is why I consulted the military, intelligence, medicine and church people and judges before I published it.

I included my email at the end of the book, and asked from readers to send me their comments, and I receive emails late at night from people telling me that they don’t know what to believe and what not to believe, and when they read the comments from the different specialists, they understand that the book is working on more than one level.

Fourteen year-olds can read this book and enjoy the action in it, and the people with political or military or technical interests can read the book and enjoy it. This is why; this book was the most difficult book I wrote, because it was like I am writing more than one book to different readers groups.

Host: Do you think that you will get any offers to make a movie out of the book?

Jonar Nader: I think that the book is a great candidate to be a movie, but there should be enough interest and time. I am currently reading a book of 500 pages about movie contracts, so when the time comes, I would be aware of everything related to this matter.

Host: Thank you for your time, and wishing you all the best with your new book. ‘Z’

Jonar Nader: Thank you Ghassan.

Host: The author ‘Jonar Nader’ who wrote a new book called ‘Z’, that talk about today’s biggest problems and mainly terrorism. With that we end the youth program ‘Youth and the future’.

Below is an English transcript of the Arabic interview.

If you would like to read the Arabic version, please click here for a PDF file.

Radio Program ‘The Youth & The Future’.

An interview with Jonar Nader.

Introduction:

Did technology liberate humans, or did it enslave them? How can we hide from authorities if they decided to watch every move we make? And what does the technology hold for us in the coming years?

Sixty years ago, the British Author George Orwell published his book ‘1984’, in which he had his famous prophesy that human beings are going to be slaves for the technologies. With the massive developments we live in today, we have to stop and think about this prophesy. This is what we are going to talk about to the author ‘Jonar Nader’.

Host: Don’t you think that we have become technology slaves, just like ‘George Orwell’ said we will?

Jonar Nader: We still teach ‘George Orwell’ ideas and books in the schools, his books were translated to many languages around the world. In the past, they called him crazy for his thoughts and prophesy, he was not as famous in his time, instead, he was considered a joke, and I personally love to learn more about such people.

Real innovation is something that usually people cannot believe, so if I tell you something about the future which you find believable, then I wouldn’t have told you something innovative, because innovation would make your brain struggle, and you would find it difficult to believe it. That is how foreseeing and far sighting is like.

‘George Orwell’ wrote a book in 1948 called ‘1984’, and since the day he wrote that book, he spoke about the way the world is going to be in the future, and described our world today; he said that where ever you go, there will be a camera watching you, and now you find cameras in the malls, streets, offices, etc… and when you hear about what he said now, it may sound insignificant, but when he said it back in his time, people called him crazy.

Host: Because at that time, even photos were very difficult and colored cameras were not very common.

Jonar Nader: Exactly, and there was no colored TV, nor was the digital technology that we know today. George Orwell didn’t only talk about this area, because he didn’t mean to talk strictly about technology, he spoke about political issues, and that is why he faced many problems, because politicians didn’t like what he said, because he spoke about people being able to control the world, and now, you can see many movies about identity theft, and about how the government can locate you easily, and how they can control your credit cards, your keys, and how they can locate your car through the chip in your toll card, etc… and people are not aware that they can be located when they pass a toll gate, or through their mobile phones.

What George Orwell said is that the government will be able to control all your moves, actions and even the way you think, and if something happened which they don’t like, they can simply log on to the central computer and erase it or change it. He said all that before the digital world.

Host: True and he said it before the invention of computers.

Jonar Nader: True, which makes you wonder how smart he was to be able to think of all that. Now, you cannot delete newspapers, because if you print a million copies, you may be able to gather and burn 100 thousands, and you may be able to prevent people from selling it, but the copies that were already sold, you cannot find and destroy. News makes history, and history exits, but what George Orwell said was that all news is going to be centralized, and if there is something we don’t like, we will change it.

What is interesting is that in 1984, Abel Computers produced their famous Macintosh product, and now everyone knows what is Macintosh, at that time, Abel said that they are aware of George Orwell’s book, and what he said in it of human beings becoming technology slaves, but we believe that Macintosh is going to liberate human beings. When we talk about technology, we have two important things to pay attention to, first is the technology itself, and the other is the application. If you want to think of an impressive technology, think of the microchip that carries on 6 million transactions in the half cm chip think of the speed of transactions, and the size of the storage devices that are very small to the level that you can carry in your buckets, but the problem is when you merge all of these technologies into one computer, you will find many problems and malfunctions.

George Orwell did not know there is going to be computers, but he knew how people think, and he knew that people are greedy, and loves control, so he asked himself about the ultimate level of control, and discovered that the ultimate level of control is controlling the mind, and in order for you to control the minds, you have to control the society, and then you have to control the information the society receives, and that is why we create the centralized news.

Host: George Orwell wrote his book 60 years ago, and he was right, when Abel was wrong, technology did not liberate us. So, what do you think is going to happen 60 years from now?

Jonar Nader: There are two points here. Distinguished technologies, and human beings, the constant factor that did not change since ever is the human being, and the general idea is that human being is greedy and stupid, why stupid, because he is born ignorant, and he spends his life searching for the purpose of life. This constant thing is going to be the minimum dominant factor for power, greed, control and stupidity. So regardless of what is going to be discovered, it has to go through this circle, just like the dry desert, it rains a little, the wonderful grass grows up for a while, then dies, and so on.

You asked me about what is going to happen 60 years from now, I can tell you about amazing and unbelievable technology, and it has to be unbelievable because otherwise, it would be like describing the present time, and amazing technology would be something difficult to believe, especially that it changes facts we know. In the past, it was impossible to believe that we will be walking on the moon, because the facts and the tools they had, would not give them any indications that they could.

They use to say that if I called someone and he didn’t answer me, then I should assume that he died, because they predicted that everyone would have a phone, which in the past was unbelievable, because the entire town had only one phone.

Host: You still didn’t tell us about what is going to happen one day.

Jonar Nader: There is a political side to the subject, because there are things that can be done, but it would be stopped by politicians or by the society, because of things related to environment, or religion. Religion people use to fight among each other, and then burn libraries.

There will be a time when everything you touch will not exist, especially in the disease technologies. We grow older and we need things to help us like eyeglasses. That is why I think the technology that is going to be very strong in the future is the bio-technology, chemical-technology or the nanotechnology.

Especially if people looked at the aging as a disease, in a way of searching for reasons of development, so if people said something like having advanced eyeglasses with cameras, it would be funny, because in the future, we will not need eyeglasses, for technology is going to cure all eyes problems without the need for eyeglasses.

Host: So you think people are going to be perfect thanks to technology?

Jonar Nader: We can fix problems at genetic level, for example, we can fix the hair loss problem in the child by treating the DNA in the parents before the birth of the child.

We need to look at the brave new world, where just like there is technology that fixes issues, there is technology that completely changes them. Take the plastic for example; the invention of the plastic is basically the creation of something that didn’t exist on earth before, not like inviting ink for the pen which is something that can only be considered convenient.

Host: So, we can say that you think technology is going to liberate us for real in the future?

Jonar Nader: The child who is born today has a computer, a mobile phone, the opportunity to travel to the moon and has an amount of knowledge and technology that is much more than any previous generation. However, this generation does not have wisdom, and that is why the child spends his entire life looking for the wisdom that would satisfy him, and would prevent him from doing things like what Hitler did. If there is a technology that can improve the life of this child, then there is a technology that can change it all together.

There are many changes that happen to us when we grow up, there are many waves which we can’t hear at a certain age, things we cannot smell, and things we cannot see clearly. That is why, when talking about technology that changes, the question would be, can we change the formation of the human body?

Host: You told us once that there will be a time when the law of physics will be changed to a level where we will be able to travel in the same way we send faxes.

Jonar Nader: I still believe in that. If you have a hammer and a piece of wood, you can do with them anything I ask you to do, but if I asked you to do anything without giving you the tools, you will not be able to do them. If someone told you 200 years ago that you will be able to talk to someone in New York while you are in Sydney via the phone as if you were in the same room, you would think I am crazy.

Host: Not only talk to me, but see me as will.

Jonar Nader: This matter was so strange to the point that people called it craziness because they had no tools that would help them, and you will not be convinced that one day you will be able to travel in seconds from one place to the other because you don’t have the tool to do that. Anyone who talks about the future, or work in the same way I work, will be described as crazy, and in the past, they use to lock them away if they would say something that goes against the teachings of the church. The teaching of the church use to say that the earth is flat and that it is the center of the universe, and when people like Copernicus and Galileo said that this was wrong and that we orbit around the sun and not the other way around, they were fought against, and even killed. That is why I said that technology cannot get advanced if the society prevented it, and it is usually stopped by the society. If you wanted to grow genetically modified potatoes for example to help make it last longer, you will have to go through millions of legal approvals, and you will face many objections from religion people, politicians and others, because of fear and love to control.

Host: But the voice that is transmitted via the phone is not a tangible or touched thing, unlink the human being, so how can you move it?

Jonar Nader: The question is what is the human being? Look at your finger; you will see that we are made of molecules that are like the building blocks. If we went to the moon and then found out that we have forgotten to bring tomato, do we have to go back to earth to bring tomato? No, because then we will have a catalogue that would have the way to structure the tomato, and we will have all the needed ingredients to build the tomato from scratch. Now, everyone who believes in God will fight me, and would say that we are interfering with God’s matters, so how can you do anything in light of all these restrictions. We need to have enough open minds not to fight everyone and everything that is new or different, which means that if I knew the formation of ‘Ghassan’ and I have all the building blocks, why can’t I build one? What is stopping me?

Host: So you will be able to be in 2 places at the same time?

Jonar Nader: We can have a ministry that would sit up laws to control such matter, in a way that would prevent people from being in 2 places at the same time.

Host (Laughs)

Jonar Nader: That is good, this is exactly what I need you to do, I need you to laugh, because when you do, it means you don’t believe me, this means that I might go the jail, and then you will be amazed by how right I was, but I don’t think we will live that long, we die and people make fun of us, and after a 1000 years, they say that we were great.

Host: Thank you for your time Jonar.

Jonar Nader: Thank you Ghassan.

Host: The author and the thinker ‘Jonar Nader’, and with that, we end the youth program ‘Youth and the Future’.

Below is an English transcript of the Arabic interview.

If you would like to read the Arabic version, please click here for a PDF file.

Radio Program ‘The Youth & The Future’.

An interview with Jonar Nader.

Introduction:

Identity theft is the worst crime of the digital era. Why should you be aware of strangers acting nice weather on the door, the phone or via email?

How does identity theft happen? And how can we fight it? And is there going to be a day when we will be afraid of telling people our birth date?

People, banks and insurance companies lose hundreds of millions of dollars every year because of what is known as ‘Identity Theft’ which is a crime by which the criminal gains access to the victim’s bank account and credit card.

This topic is what we are going to talk about with the author and thinker ‘Jonar Nader’ who often lectures about it.

Host: Jonar, why is the identity theft crime increasing?

Jonar Nader: Identity theft is one of the most common and fast spread crimes, and the amount of stolen money through this crime is doubling every year.

The thief calls the bank claiming to be me for example, and tries to get a little bit of information, and then calls again after a while to get a little more of information, and keeps on doing that until he gathers enough information to convince the bank that he is me, and then tells the bank that he lost the credit card, and requests that they send him the new one to the hotel where he is staying because he is travelling.

So, the bank sends my credit card to this unknown person, who easily signs the back of the card, activating it, and starts using it.

The bills will be sent to the new address that he has provided. So now the bank thinks that I am using this credit card and not paying, when I am not receiving any bills because they are being sent to the new address provided by the thief. The result is, I am black listed, and might be taken to court before proving that it was not me.

Host: Actually people might think this is some kind of a joke, when it is a very serious thing. So how does the thief get this information about the victim?

Jonar Nader: As you know, we still get the mail via post office by sending it with the postman who places it in our mailboxes. Anyone can wait until the postman leaves, and then goes and steals whatever it is in the mailbox. And in there he might find mail sent from government departments, utility companies, phone companies, etc…

From that, he would know the name and the address of the victim.

Then he searches through the garbage. He might find something with bank account number on it. Now, he knows the name, address, bank name and bank account, and they might also get their birth date from the garbage.

They might get the home phone number and then call and claim to be the school’s gym teacher and that the son of the victim is injured and needs to be taken urgently to the hospital, and they need to have the Medicare number. The parent who is worried for their child would give them that number.

That is how they gather information, and all they need is 5 pieces of information to call the bank and steal one’s identity. You say that some think it is a joke, I told people that a day will come where you will be worried of having a birthday party at the office, because you wouldn’t want people to know your birth date.

The other way is via Email. Yesterday I received an email telling me that someone was trying to access my bank account, and that I needed to click on a link to verify the information they have. And there are many people who would actually click on that link. So people should know never to click on any links from emails they don’t know.

Once I was called by a legitimate credit card company, and the lady on the phone was asking me all kinds of identity questions, so I told her ‘Lady, I don’t know who you are to give you all these information’ she told me that she needed this information, so I said ‘By this you are teaching your clients to give information to just any caller’. After that, I called the fraud department manager of that bank, the security manager and other managers to tell them about that, but no one seemed to have enough information about this kind of crimes, and that is why you see them every day in the courts trying to solve related cases. We try to educate the listeners about this kind of crimes, when senior bank officials who are the main victims of such crimes, are still not fully aware of it.

Host: So what do you think should be done then? We are now cautious about what we through in the garbage, how we talk over the phone. How can we protect ourselves?

Jonar Nader: People should always be careful, and wonder about the person looking for information, who are they and why do they want this information.

I rent movies from the movie store, and they ask for my driver’s license as a guarantee, and through the driver’s license, they can close your bank account. Because the driver’s license has your picture, your full name, your date of birth, your driver’s license number, your address and your signature, that is 6 pieces of information, and all I need is 5 to do whatever it is I need to do. So I always tell the guys the movie store that I will not give you my driver’s license, instead I will give you a 100 dollars as a guarantee, and if they didn’t like it, I don’t take the movie.

And once I was on a commercial airline that do not have entertainment on board, and they offer you a portable DVD player to use for 5 dollars and your driver’s license as a guarantee, I told the lady that I can’t give you my driver’s license for 2 hours, I don’t know what you can do with it. She said ‘don’t you trust me?!’ as if people would punish you for doing the right thing.

Some might call your house and say ‘is this so and so house?’ you say no, then they ask if it was some other person’s house, you say no, this is Ghassn’s house, and by that they know the name and the phone number.

Host: We once spoke and said that today’s thieves are no longer jumping of windows trying to steal few dollars; they are the big digital thieves, which is a scary thing.

Jonar Nader: True. Today, you cannot go from one room to the other in your office without using the swipe card, and people think it is a high security system, because that way they can tell who enters what room at what time, but the fact remains that the system cannot tell who is using the card.

At the buildings for example, if someone enters after me into the building without using his swipe card, I don’t go anywhere or use the elevator until I know where is he going and why didn’t he use his swipe card.

The same thing in some hotels, where the elevator will only work if used your hotel card, so, if someone jumps into the elevator with me without using his card, I call the security.

Host: A while ago, they used the person’s photo as a kind of identification on the credit cards. Do you think that is an effective way?

Jonar Nader: It does help to a certain level, but they made a research by visiting 200 stores and bought items which they paid for using a card that had a photo of a dog on it, as well as using a wrong signature, they found out that in 70% of the stores, no one paid attention. Which means that many people wouldn’t pay attention to the photo, especially that people would change the way they look from time to time?

I think it is better if the credit card didn’t have any information, because when I go to the supermarket to buy a very small thing, the clerk knows my credit card number and signature. And if I wanted to pay the taxi using the credit card, I usually ask him to drop me few houses away from my house, because I don’t want him knowing my credit card number, my name and my address. I am not saying that the taxi driver is planning to steal anyone, but sometimes they talk to entertain the passengers, and they give them the addresses of the people they know.

Host: Too many things can happen because of gossip.

Jonar Nader: True. And there are people who would call claiming to be from a charity organization or something, and some people would respond to them and give them information. I use to live with my family, and my mother was a very nice lady who didn’t like to hurt other’s feelings, and use to answer all questions any caller would ask her. This is wrong.

A lady friend of mine who lives alone once told me that she saw someone trying to climb on her balcony, so I told her; you should have acted as if you were talking to your husband.

As for the home phone, I refused to get a used number and requested for a fresh one, and had to wait 2 months to get it, because I didn’t want to have a phone that is known by others.

And today, there is this new technology, that would forward the call to the answer machine before the phone rings, and then the machine would request the caller to say his/her name, if the name was not in the phone registry entered by the phone owner, the phone would not ring.

In the future, we might be able to give passwords to people who want to call us, so when you call me for example, you will be asked to enter the password I give you so your call can go through.

Host: There are also people going from door to door saying that they are from a new electricity company or phone company and request information. So is it wise to give information to such people?

Jonar Nader: They might come to you wearing the right uniform and driving the right car, and tell you that they have competitive prices, and when you ask them about these prices, they say that they cannot give you these information until they see your previous bill, in this case, the company might be for real, but their information gathering system is stupid.

I once told you that a police chief came to my house with a notification, and asked if this was Mrs. Jonar Nader’s house. He was wearing the police uniform, driving the police car. So I get confused, weather to say yes which would not be true, or to say no, and then he well ask me more questions about things he does not need to know.

So I said ‘Who wants to know?’, he said ‘I can’t tell you that because I have a notification that I should only give to Mrs. Jonar Nader’.

So I said ‘this is the wrong address’ he asked again if there was a Mrs. Jonar Nader that lives in this house. I said no, because I didn’t know who is he and who sent him and what is he delivering.

We also need to know that identity theft is not limited to stealing money and financial information; they could also use it to harm you in a legal way.

Host: The thinker and author ‘Jonar Nader’ and with that we end the ‘Youth and the Future’.

Below is an English transcript of the Arabic interview.

If you would like to read the Arabic version, please click here for a PDF file.

Radio Program ‘The Youth & The Future’.

An interview with Jonar Nader.

Introduction:

Large computer and internet corporations and human rights! Where are the ethics in the greed culture? Why should there be a law against internet corporations that provides assistant to dictatorship governments by helping them identify and locate people with free minds? And are you aware that whatever you write on your computer or you send via SMS stays stored somewhere even if you erased it from your pc or from your mobile phone?

Organizations that are concerned about human rights and the freedom of journalism, speech and opinions have started a series of meetings with large computer and internet corporations like Microsoft, Google, Yahoo and others, to pressure them to have a code of ethics that would protect the freedom of expressions and speech. This movement started after one of the largest internet corporations have cooperated with the Chinese Government in order to find out the identity of a journalist who wrote an email to someone out of China telling him about situations in China. This Journalist was then hunted down and sent to prison. This is the topic we are going to talk about with the Electronics and Computer expert ‘Jonar Nader’.

Host: Jonar, what do you think about the ongoing negotiations?

Jonar Nader: I would like to say that this is a funny thing. If you had a gang of 5 or 6 people in your town, who are causing problems by stealing and hurting people, what do you do? You call the police and ask them to stop this gang. But, what you do not do, is ask these 5 or 6 trouble makers to sit down and figure out a solution to the situation they caused! That would be funny. And that what happened when they asked the large corporations to think of a way to behave better, when these companies are the ones that would go to China, where there is no freedom of speech, and cooperate with the government over there not only to withhold information from people, but to also help them find the ones who express their opinions, so the government then look for them and punishes them. While these companies brag about how they are American companies who always support and call for freedom of speech and exchange of information.
This Chinese Journalist wrote an email to an American journalist telling them that the Chinese government is instructing journalists in China that they should report the anniversary of the “Tiananmen Massacre” only as told by the government. So he was sentenced to 5 years in prison for “Leaking State Secrets”, as if the information he sent were state secrets.

Host: And the important point here is that the Chinese government would not have been able to identify and find this journalist, without the help of Yahoo.

Jonar Nader: That is right. The Chinese government asked ‘Yahoo Hong Kong’ for information about this journalist. And they gave them what they asked for.

If you wanted to go to an internet café in China, you would have to provide them with your full name and give them an official identification like your driving license for example. Young people in the west think that because they can easily send emails to anywhere they wish, they think it is the same everywhere else, which is not true.

If you visit Google.com, and searched for the “Tiananmen Massacre” you will get thousands of results. But if you tried searching for it in Google.cn, which is Google of china, you will get nothing. United Nations spoke about such matters, and about the fact that corporations should not be helping governments to break the human rights laws. And the fundamentals of human rights say in articles 12 and 19 that every human being has the right to access to information, give information, and freedom of speech and expression.

So if this is the United Nations’ Human Rights law, how can Google break it in China? If someone broke the law of his country in some other country, he will face the court of his country, even if what he did was allowed in that country. So why not bring the large corporations to law if they break the laws of their countries, even if that happened in other countries.

Host: As for the Code of Ethics, what are the things that can be mentioned in it and can be implemented?

Jonar Nader: The organization ‘Amnesty International’ is currently fighting these corporations by pointing fingers that they are responsible for the imprisonment and death of many people by helping governments in doing that. If I went to some country, and committed murder, can I go back home and say that I am not guilty, because murder is not a crime in that country?! Companies are assumed citizens of their countries, Google, Microsoft and Yahoo, are assumed citizens of the USA, hence, they cannot break the USA laws even outside the USA.

You asked me about the kind of ethics that can be placed, ‘Amnesty International’ say that these ethics should be something like ‘If someone searched for something like ‘Tiananmen Massacre’ on Google.cn, they should get a massage saying that ‘There so and so number of results found for your search, but due to local laws, we cannot show you these results’, but the result of the search cannot be zero’ this way, the company does not break the Chinese laws.

Host: So, this is some kind of a middle solution that would help people know who is responsible for withholding information. But what about giving information to governments that would help them search and locate people, because governments can locate people through tracking systems available in these corporations. Isn’t there an ethical commitment that can prevent the companies from doing so?

Jonar Nader: Actually, Google said that they cannot provide Email services in China because there are no privacy protection laws in there, so they gave this service to a third company.

Now this is a very complicated matter, because as we said, a crime against the law is the same wherever you do it. This matter is about corporation greed for money, and the law should be enforced on corporations in other countries as will, and should be punished if they break it in these countries, especially if it was one of the companies that keeps on talking about how much they sport freedom of speech and freedom of opinions and exchange of information, and then assists governments in other countries to hunt down and punish people.

This is a very sensitive issue, but because we are talking about large corporations, no one is doing anything about it. However, this is mainly a matter of ethics in these companies, because if you don’t agree on the policies and ethics in China for example, then why do you go there to do business? It is always about the money.

Host: We have spoken a lot about the chaos online with regards to the published materials, so how can we think of a code of conduct to protect freedom of expression, and the privacy of people at the same time?

Jonar Nader: The privacy issue is also mentioned in the United Nations’ Human Rights Declaration. There is a list in the United Nation made of 2500 companies calling themselves ‘UN GLOBAL COMPCT’ who speaks about the importance of privacy. So maybe the code of ethics should say that if the company wants to operate in a country like China, then it should make it clear for the government in there that they cannot abide by their laws related to privacy and freedom of speech and opinions, and if the governments didn’t exempt them from these laws, the company should simply not do business in there.

Host: But this is idealism. And I don’t think corporations would act that way.

Jonar Nader: It isn’t about idealism, it is about law.

Host: People like you and me think that way, but companies making billions of dollars from such countries would not think this way.

Jonar Nader: It is not about what the companies approve on or not. Why was Saddam Husain executed? Did he personally kill the people he was executed for? No, but he gave the orders to kill them. And these companies are the ones who designed the software that was used to hunt down and punish people by these governments.

And I wonder again, why weren’t any of these companies punished for what they did? Was it because they are large corporations? But aren’t corporations supposed to obey the laws of their country regardless of where they operate? We are committed to the United Nations’ Human Rights declaration, which means that we cannot behalf in other ways in some other countries, and that is what they do. So these companies shouldn’t do business in China, and they should tell the Chinese government that if they want them to work in China, then they should not expect from these companies to help them hunt down people.

If I go to any country and start selling weapons because it is allowed in that country, I will be punished in my country because it is illegal. The same thing should apply for technology; people should be brought to courts for selling some kind of technologies to certain countries.

If you don’t agree on hanging people, yet you make the rope used in hanging people, then you are an accessory to the crime, and if you call for freedom of expression and then make software that would control freedom for countries like China, then it is like you are selling weapons or hanging tools.

Host: Do you think that the code of ethics will be issued soon or not?

Jonar Nader: Of course it will take time, because no one is pushing for it, it is like what I told you in the beginning of having a gang in town, and instead of calling police, you ask the gang to solve the problem.

At the end, they will come out with a code of ethics that is filled with words the average person cannot understand something like ‘We are steadfast to adhere to so and so …’ just words nothing more, that is why I am not optimistic that they are going to change anything, it is all about profit, the world is all about profit.

The tension you feel in my voice is because people are being killed and tortured and others cannot communicate with each other, and we in the west world are helping governments to pursue and punish and execute journalists, lawyers and pro democracy, while we call for democracy by what we do in Iraq for example, and then help countries like China to wipe out democracy by providing them with tools to do so, like software that would make them chase and locate people.

Host: But would China be able to control this forever, I mean with internet piracy and the unlimited internet development? And the uncontrolled freedom?

Jonar Nader: What is it that they cannot control? They are controlling everything in there, in China you only have Google.cn, and the information on this website is controlled by the government of China, and if you live in China, you will only get the information that the government of China would allow you to get. And if you were arrested for sending an email, then the law is so broad that they can accuse you with anything they want.

Host: But can’t these services be hacked?

Jonar Nader: In the past, people use to talk, and communicate verbally with no written obligations, but the internet is not like that at all, everything you say online is recorded somewhere. If you send an SMS to your son’s mobile telling him that you will be late, and then he erased it, do you think that it will disappear forever? I can get it back for you after a year.

Do you think that the intelligence authorities have time to listen to everything being said, or to read all the emails? Of course not, there are billions of users against few thousand agents, which is why they count on computer software.

I use to work for ‘IBM’ and if I use to send any information about the company, the computer would be able to trace it. Let me give you an easy example, assume that I have sent an email saying ‘Let’s put a bomb in the office’ computer monitoring system will send a notification to the security department telling them that I have said ‘bomb’.

If we assumed that there is a large company which is going to buy our company, and I sent an email to a journalist telling him about this company, the monitoring system will alert the security department that I am talking about the new company. That is why we need to know that monitoring online is very strong, and we are lucky to have a certain degree of freedom compared to other countries.

But I would like to tell people who send emails and SMS to be careful, even with information available of their computers; all is kept somewhere even after being erased. So people have to be careful with what they send to each other.

And today, we also have the retrospective law, which means that I might have written something insignificant a year ago, but today, and because of the new terrorism law, what I wrote is illegal, and they find it in my computer, and they use it against me, and if I said that I have written this a year ago when it was legal, they will say: ‘True, but we are talking about today’.

Host: Thank you for your time Jonar.

Jonar Nader: Thank you Ghassan.

Host: The author and the thinker ‘Jonar Nader’, and with that, we end the youth program ‘Youth and the Future’.