Here is the transcript:

Jane: Yes, and it’s good book for thinkers when we find out more with a thinker, who is the author, and it’s Jonar Nader.

Hello, Jonar. Welcome.

Jonar Nader: Hi, thanks. Jane.

Jane: How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People? It’s all about conquering your life and your workplace.

Jonar Nader: Yes. Well, the title is funny that people say, “Do you really mean that I should lose friends?” Surely, it mean for me to win friends and I say,” What I want you to do is to learn the opposites of everything you have been taught.” You can never be successful unless you understand yourself. You can never be successful unless you understand how to work with others. And even then you can’t be successful unless you understand the environment, the modern world, the digital age in which we live. So, therefore, the book is in straight path because it says, “Let’s look at how to develop ourselves, how to work with others, and how to understand the environment in which we work.”

And one of the single biggest things we can do about success, for example, people say “What are the secrets to success?” and I say, “It is not about amassing things, but about discarding things.” I mean, how many of us think, “Well, if I have a lovely car, and lovely home, and lots of money, that’s success.”

No, for me, it’s “Have I gotten rid of the intimidators? Have I gotten rid of the people who set my energy and set my time?” because when you wake in the morning, you have this much energy. And someone steals your car and you – how much energy you’re going to give to that? And then your boss intimidates you, how much energy you’re going to give to that? We have to decide that we are just a little bundle of energy. Let’s not let people steal it away from us.

Jane: What if we don’t have the personality to be like that? What if we’re really frail and shy and we can’t do it?

Jonar Nader: Well, but you see, being powerful to take control of your life isn’t about having this apt of personality, it’s about you deciding. For example, if I say “I don’t’ like your shirt, or your hair” or whatever, are you going to let that thought penetrate you and make you upset? Do you know there are some people who go through the whole day upset because their boss said something? And you go, “Hang on a minute.” No one is authorized to upset you, so you don’t have to have an extrovert personality.

Anybody must realize that no one is authorized to upset you. Why give the key to your confidence to someone else? And many of us live in this abdication society and we give everything to the other person. We give our career to our teachers and we say, ”Go on, educate me.” We give our happiness to our lover and we say, “Go ahead, make me happy.” We give our welfare to our government and we say, “Go ahead, look after me.” And so, all our lives, we give our whole control to other people. It’s not about having…

Jane: And then there’s nothing left for us, and so we’ve been…

Jonar Nader: Well, we don’t know…

Jane: Become insecure.

Jonar Nader: We don’t know how to take charge because then when you are left out in the wind and you’re left to control your own destiny, you can’t because you’ve never actually being taught how to do it.

Jane: Well, I know we’re out of time but this is success in marriage, in work, in laws…

Jonar Nader: In all areas…

Jane: Everything in the book.

Jonar Nader: Because, actually, although we work and some of us don’t work, whatever, we all live. And when you go to bed, ask yourself, “What’s tormenting me?” And usually, it’s just everything to do with life.

Jane: It’s so true. We worry about all the things that we shouldn’t worry about because we haven’t got the power within us. So, let’s just say, “I’m going to get rid of that and think about something positive.” We need to – Robin, we need to read this from cover to cover. It’s 1995 recommended retail in good bookstores available everywhere. Your sixth book?

Jonar Nader: Yes.

Jane: And two more to come, you are a winner.

Jonar Nader: Thank you.

Jane: Thank you. What do you think – what do you think?

Jonar Nader: I think it’s a great idea, and I really subscribe to everything that you’re saying. I’m hundred percent with you.

Here is the transcript:

Host: If you are feeling fed up and frustrated with the inefficiency and inaccuracy in your workplace, don’t give up. There could be a cure in the new book, “How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People”. We welcome the author, Jonar Nader to the show. That just strikes me as odd that somehow infuriating people and, you know, making things sort of – really sort of jumbling things up can actually have a positive effect.

Jonar Nader: Well, absolutely, it is positive because what it says is, “Look, life is too precious, it’s too valuable, it’s too beautiful to let all these idiots come your way and steal your life from you,” because at the end of the day what have you got but a little bit of energy and a little bit of life and it goes so quickly.

Host: Let me tell you, where did you learn that lesson, because you learned that lesson a hard way?

Jonar Nader: Yeah, well, I grew up in Lebanon, in Beirut, and went to Australia, I couldn’t speak a word of English, went back and the war started. And in the war, I could see life and death within seconds. And then when I went back to Australia I saw these people playing games, wasting life, and I should of think it was me, you know. Life is so beautiful, what are you guys doing? So, I left school at 14, went to study part time, joined the corporate jungle. And then as I got older and more senior and more senior, I thought, “You guys are the same kids at school, except now you’re wearing fancy ties, you drive fancy cars, and you’re still a bunch of idiots. Get out there and, you know, leave people alone. I’m going to say no. I’m not going to put up with this anymore.” It doesn’t mean you have to be unfriendly, it doesn’t mean you have to be obnoxious. It doesn’t mean you have to be difficult to get along with. Quite the opposite. You’re actually relaxed because you know the value of life.

Host: One of the things that you say in your book that is “How do we – How and why to infuriate your boss.” I mean this – for most of us – this is just, you know, unthinkable.

Jonar Nader: Yeah, and for how long is your boss and by boss, I mean, the whole corporate structure have their, you know, thumb on your head and they go, “You will do as I tell you.”

Host: I got a fake fingerprint right on the clock there.

Jonar Nader: I know, and I’m going bald from it. But the boss actually is normally a nice guy or a nice girl, right?

Host: Yeah.

Jonar Nader: But they have to put up with this culture, this thing we call culture. It’s not going to change until it changes right down at the bottom. And it’s usually the law of permissibility. If you accept all that nonsense that comes your way, most of your colleagues will accept it. If you stand up and rise and say, “Look boss, you know, I really don’t think this is the way we should be doing it.” The others will gain energy from you because it usually just takes the minority to create something big.

Host: And you’re talking about picking your fight because you’ve got to pick something that you know is winnable and right down to the core, you can solve the problems. Give me an example of the right fight.

Jonar Nader: Well, okay, first, before you pick any fight, you have to actually understand what value you add. You can’t just say, “I don’t like this. I’m going to change it.” Well, can you change it? So, before you pick any fight, build yourself. Learn about communication skills. Learn about the skill and the craft so that you become an expert. So many people out there are just loudmouths and they don’t know how to do it better. You know, everyone is politician and they go, “We should did this. We should do that,” but they don’t know how to do it better. Go learn how to do it better. Understand the network world in which we live. Now, you’re actually a real person, you’re not just some loudmouth running around, trying to change the world, you know, without any real value. Then, you can go and say, “Look, this is what I can do for you.” And most people are grateful if you can go to your boss. If you can go to your boss and say, “You know what? I can really do this for you.” And if you build the reputation, your boss will say, “Go for it.” And then when you go to negotiate a better deal, it doesn’t have to be about money, it could be about the work conditions, it could be about the environment.

Host: Sure.

Jonar Nader: Corporate life today is so depressing. And, look, they’re earning more and more money, and they’re just more and more depressed.

Host: Also, you’re talking about know the problem in the sense that maybe the problem really isn’t your boss. Maybe it’s the part of the culture. Maybe your boss, you have a high turnover rate. What happens there?

Jonar Nader: Let’s talk about culture. People would come and say, “Let’s change the culture.” Let me tell you, “You can not change the culture.” What you’ve got to do is to say, “Where does culture comes from?” Culture comes from things that are habits. Where did the habit from? It came from things that were once actions and activities that were permissible.

Host: Right.

Jonar Nader: And then once they’re permissible, they’re invisible. And people will end up doing them and, all of a sudden, it’s the actions that turn into habits that turn into culture. And I say if you want to change your culture, find someone who’s doing something, the habit, and stomp on it. But if you stump on it, they say, “Oh, why are you reacting?”

Host: All right. We’ve got to go very quickly, like 30 seconds.

Jonar Nader: Yeah.

Host: But you say very wisely, have an exit plan. And that means?

Jonar Nader: Well, it means have a backup plan. If you going to throw a punch, know where you’re going to fall. It’s a bit stupid jumping on horse without knowing, without a safety net. Have a safety net, whether that be your education, or another job or your own a small business, but – people to back you up.

Host: Jonar, thanks very much.

Jonar Nader: Yeah.

Host: I really appreciate it. And I like the different point of view, as well. And we’re going to tell the people that is a different take on corporate leadership. And if you’d like to learn more about it, you can read the book called “How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People”.

Here is the transcript:

Jonar Nader: How can we engineer your future? Oh, well, I left school at fourteen, by the way. And I went to our school reunion out of courtesy – curiosity, I mean – and they said to me, this kid walks up to me and says, “Hey, Nader, what do you do for a job now, mate?” sporting two Jim Beam bottles as his idea of a balanced diet. Knowing he was being mischievous, I thought, “Okay.” I said, “I’m a futurist.” He said, “You’re always the weird one.”

Jonar Nader: “What do you do?” I said. He said, “I’m a historian at Sydney Union.” I thought, “Fancy, lecturing in history and thinking that’s normal and okay and I’m weird because I study the future.” Well, let me put it to you this way. When you went to bed last night – and I must say I saw a few of you happily go to bed last night – but were you not thinking about the future? Of course, you had the troubles of the past and, gosh, that was that a joke, funny, and did I crack on to that person well enough and, you know, can I afford and that and – yeah, we think about it. But are we hoping for the future?

Jonar Nader: Now, if we think abut our business and we want a prosperous future, why don’t we teach people about looking at the future? How hard is it? Very simple. The idea about being a futurist is not that you’re this clairvoyant. My friend’s father was a clairvoyant and his mother was a contortionist and as a result he could foresee his own end. I’m not talking about being sort of this psychic. I’m saying, “A clever business person preempts and says, ‘What are the likely scenarios? We might not know perfectly which one, but what are the likely scenarios and how can I plan and pre-empt to get there so when it hits me in the face I am ready? We have a bumper bar.’” A lot of companies today fall because there’s not bumper bar. That bumper bar is what I call the SAF I spoke to you in Christ’s Church – surprise absorption factor. What absorption to surprise can you cope with? There’s the smart business operator for you.

Jonar Nader: Well, I’m going to ask you eight disturbing questions. Now a lot of speakers get up on stage and they tell you stats. Their numbers and stats are impressive and they’re real and that’s great. But I’m going to do something different. I’m going to show you a bit of stats but I’m going to show you the formula so that you can go to your office on Monday and actually run the formula yourself so that I’m not talking to you about the world and 30% of people said that and 50% of others said that. I’m going to tell you exactly what percent of you matters to this question. So I dare you to apply these eight questions to your business on Monday and you will know and you don’t need me or any other consultant to tell you what’s going to happen to you. What would happen if you had to pay for the time you put people on hold. You’re a corporation and you say, “Please hold the line,” and ding-dong music goes on. Well, as a futurist I’m predicting that there will come a time when we will have to pay for abusing people’s time on hold. And I’m saying just at $20 an hour – if that’s what we agree a human’s cost is – it’s a 70-billion dollar problem for the Australian industry. Tell me if we can afford that kind of thing. Well, can we preempt it? What would happen if the funds froze when the service you provided didn’t suit me, when the toaster you sold me doesn’t work, when the software has to be re-booted ten times a day? Where would the richest man be in the world today if every time I had to re-boot my computer? The money in his bank account froze. Now, apply that to your business. If you promise, make a promise and you don’t deliver, what happens if the money that you are paid froze? And in the network world, that’s where we are heading. If only 5% of the services that you offer to me are not what you promised them to be, the staff time it takes to fix them is 30% of staff time. Would you agree with that? Little, tiny, stupid mistakes that consume a third of your time, what a waste of money. And here we are trying to make an extra percentage point and there’s 30 down the drain.

Jonar Nader: Question number three: What would happen if your staff who did not like to go to work did not go to work? Well, what would happen if 10% of your staff did not show up? In companies that are 50 people or less, if 10% of their staff did not show up to work tomorrow, the business would come to a standstill in 15% of them. There’d be a major disruption in 52%, and there’d be no disruption in, you know, 20% of them, and we have others. Well, don’t worry about these figures. Take the equation back home. Say, 10% of my staff, what would happen? What are your contingencies? Maybe it won’t affect you. But if it does, do something about it to handle staff better so that they want to come to work. And don’t do it when it’s too late. Too late is too late. Don’t wait for the catastrophe. What if you are forced to disclose your force?

Jonar Nader: What if you’re forced to disclose your history as a director? How many customers have complained this week? How many refunds you’ve had to give? How many litigations there are? How many times this mobile phone’s battery breaks down? How many times my engine has a problem in all the cars you sell me? I want to see your dirty laundry before I buy a product because laws will be passed to force you to show your dirty laundry to the customers.

Jonar Nader: And, funnily enough, I was having breakfast this morning. I’m full. Look at this. This is the local paper, The Courier Mail, front page reads, “If the Federal Court action succeeds, banks could be forced to reveal valuations in cases where buyers are paying more than 10% above their market value.” Banks charged of a scam, the law will force banks to give you an evaluation or valuation on the land before they sell it to you and if it’s more than 10%. It is by law that they show it to you because then you don’t buy a block of land and realize later in fact you’ve been overcharged. What if that law spread further and further and further? Because when you come to buy this new mobile phone, yeah, it looks funky, great price, but how many times does the battery fail? How would you know?

Well, I’d like to know, because I don’t want to trek through town while they say to me, “Well, bring it in for a pair and wait two weeks.” “No, give me my money back or give me a product.” What about if the customer can record you? “Please hold the line and this call maybe monitored for quality assurance purposes.” Quality assurance? What a joke. Have you noticed now it doesn’t say that anymore? It says, “This call maybe recorded for staff training purposes,” because they’ve given up on the quality. It didn’t work. Well, okay, record it. Go ahead, I beg them. Sometimes, I say, “Please record this. No one’s going to believe this hideous conversation I’m having with you.” Well, what if the customer can record you, because when you’re on the phone you press one button, just one, and if I don’t like this conversation, I go, beep, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it’s going on to my MPEG, MP3, goes down to my website, and there in my website within seconds is the conversation and all my mates can hear? So, monitor your calls and say, “What are my staff saying? What would happen if this ended up for the world to hear?” Preempt, train, so that doesn’t happen to you.

Jonar Nader: In the hospitality sector, the clients who object to being recorded or eavesdropped or listened to are only 1%. People actually want management to listen in because there’s just not much happening for them. And those who want the call recorded are actually 83%. And those who want the managers to monitor the call are very high. They don’t want to deal with people anymore who can’t handle their call, not because these phone operators are bad, the poor kids on the phone, it’s not their fault, but they haven’t been empowered to make the decision. Therefore, either empower them to make the decision, all that they have to do or don’t have it. What about if we ban the asterisk and the fine print? Can you open up an offer today where the bottom bit has 300 times more words than the top bit? And not only – it used to be the asterisk, now, notice next time you see an offer, it’s got a squiggle, an infinity symbol, a caret sign, a dagger, a double dagger, a triple asterisk. It’s like now everything has a code at the bottom.

Jonar Nader: I’m putting it to you, there will come a time when a law will be passed that will say, “You are not allowed to put an asterisk.” If you can’t make an offer to me right there in my face and mean it for me, don’t make the offer in public. You’re wasting everyone’s time. So, take this to your own company on Monday. Ask to see all your ads. Ask to see all your offers. Ask to see all your brochures and read them. And if there’s fine print on it, I challenge you to rewrite those offers in a way that makes sense without the slimy business if I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Jonar Nader: In the hospitality sector, the clients who see an asterisk doubt the ad immediately. Ninety-two percent of them say, “No. The moment I see an asterisk, that’s it. I don’t know.” Stop tricking your customers. You don’t even believe it yourself so don’t do that. What about those who can’t comprehend the fine print? Most people can’t. Honestly, they can’t. It’s so ambiguous and so confusing. And the customers who had their fingers burned by thinking they were buying something ended up with something else, bang.

Here is the transcript:

Jonar Nader: Yes, who aggress with that? Yes. They were never there to help anybody in the first place. And so what do we end up with? Complaints. And what do they do? Consume your time, energy, and effort. And when we file complaints, “I’m too busy. I’m the manager. Talk to that person.” And that person became a 500 strong department. Remember, building a 5-storey building did not make our company. A 5-storey building, and I said, “Wow. Can I have one of those offices?” They said, “No. They are for none of you people. They are for the help desks.” Five storeys of help desks. Well, it’s very easy. I said, “Has anyone gone to the warehouse and worked out why this thing doesn’t work?” None. No one’s thought to fix the root of the problem.

Jonar Nader: Well, I’m putting it to you your help desk will be a thing of the past because they’re an absolute waste of time, energy and effort and it’s because of the gutless one that’s at the top who call themselves executives and drive their fancy cars? You haven’t got a clue, and they say to me, “The customer is genuinely with an American accent.” I’m sorry, because, you know. They say, “You know, Jonar,” they sing a lot, these Americans. I can teach you how to speak Americans very simple. All you need to know is four words and you’re going to have a conversation with Bill all day long. “Uh-huh? Oh, really? Sure. Great.” You can just go, “Uh-huh? Really? Sure? Great,” all day long and he’ll think you’re a yank.

Jonar Nader: In large corporates where help desks are involved, customers say that help desks are impersonal. They say that they want to resolve their issue, but 40% of them say, “I hung up and never got anywhere.” Customers who want to choose their own agent, they like speaking to Mary, “I want to speak to Mary.” “No, sorry, you can’t speak to Mary. Just dial the one, three number.” You never get the assigned person again. You have to repeat yourself again. If you say, “Escalate me,” they go, “I can’t escalate you,” escalate me. I was on to a large company that day and they wouldn’t escalate me. And I said – and I had to, that’s why I record myself – I said, “What would you say if I said there’s a bomb in your building?” Boy, I was escalated, quick smart. That’s how bad it for knowing the legalities I was standing in for here, 10 phone calls.

Jonar Nader: And that’s 98% of people say, “Can I talk to Mary again, please? I want the person I want to talk to” and calls that it could have been avoided, because stupidity is a waste of money. Boy, when I see all this business about, oh, we have to retrench 500 people, why? Retrench yourself first because it was your stupid decision in the company. One of these days, they’re going to take their responsibility seriously. Staff say managers do not understand. The staff at the help desk are abused left, right and center and they say, “I go to my management and my management doesn’t understand.” And these – the yanks, used to say to me is customers want this and that. And you can silence them by saying, “Name two.” They’re never so much as being out to meet a customer. And they’re telling me, people like black and what – how do you know they like black computers or whatever you’re selling?

Jonar Nader: Staff say say, “Managers do not understand.” They are frustrated to death. And they got this junior supposed supervisors who are on a power hungry trip and and no one can understand what’s going on. And, finally – not that I’ve ended, these are just finally on this segment. It’s a long way to go. “Where is John K? Who’s keeping time here? Listen, here is, here is the final one, the exit poll. You know they I keep asking you questions. Like I love it when I check in to every hotel in the world and there’s the “Please, give us your comments.” I just loved that. What do you want my comments for? It says, “Was the TV working?” Why you’re asking me? You go up there. You check the TV and you tell me if it’s working. “Was the hairdryer working?” Goodness gracious, I don’t want anymore surveys.

Jonar Nader: You know what I want? I want exit polls. Just before you hang up, it goes beep, beep, “Excuse me, Mr. Nader, before you hang up, this is a robot talking, can you please tell us: Do you think we’re a bunch of rat bags? Press one for yes, two for no.” Beep. Did we answer your question? One for yes, two for no. Beep. “And would you like a senior executive to call you back straight away to resolve your problem? Press one for yes, two for no.” So all these three questions I want, very simple. And there, linking to the executive screen is the immediate blip by blip as to how many people think that they are happy with you, frustrated with you. Tell me there and then on the spot I want to know how to run my business, not a year later when, for example, the survey comes through that’s been washed and milled and hygienically cleansed by everybody from their ad agency to the PR agency to the consultant to the marketing department and gets the, “Hey, no one knows what’s going on.” Get your exit polls happening. Ask on the spot and there you will know what customers think of you.

Jonar Nader: In all of the sectors that we studied over a five-year period, customers willing to engage in an exit poll is very high as 77%. Executives who can respond, executives who said, “Yes, if I knew, I could respond, 14%. Most executives know that they live in a complex bureaucratic hell hole and they don’t quite know what to do about any customer who complains about anything because they have – we have this thing called metrics management that the yanks brought in to us. Thanks very much. And metrics management says, “I’ll do my bit and I don’t care what you do with it.” And no one – I can’t find anyone responsible. I work for large companies. I suggest that we have to change the paper from – I think it was 70 gsm, because we save money to 80 because it kept jamming in the photocopier. I said, “I want 80 gsm photocopy paper.” It took seven people and like months and I never even got around to doing it because everyone was responsible – one for the paper, one for the color, one for the purchasing manager, one for the pricing one. Forget it.

Jonar Nader: And what about executives willing to be paid on the results of the exit poll? Hardly anyone? Managers admit that they have no power. And the investors who do want to know what the exit poll is, the investors who own the company say, “Oh, yes, we all want to know.” Are you willing to implement one? No. They don’t want to know. What can that do to my share price? I don’t know. I just want to sell.

Jonar Nader: Where is John? He’s come and gone. How many minutes have I got? Ten minutes. They called me into their North Sydney office; I was telling you, so I got distracted. And they said, “We want you to answer all these questions.” And I said, “When is your conference?” And they said, “29 November to 2 December.” I said, “You all can do that in three days.” He said, “No. You’ve got 55 and a half minutes.” He’s learned my trick. And that’s just like when my teacher used to gamble down the street. I went to Holy Cross College in Ryde. Down the street was a TAB betting shop, a betting shop. And he would set us to work with a huge amount of questions and he’d go on bet. And one day, he walked in and he said, “Class, I want you to develop for me an essay in three parts covering religion, royalty, sex, and mystery.” So he thought that it’d keep us busy. And as he was walking out the door, “Finished, sir,” said little Mary. “Mary, do you mean to tell me that in two seconds flat you have written for me a three part essay covering religion, royalty, sex, and mystery? I want to hear it.” So up she got and she read. “Oh, my god”, said the Princess. “I think I’m pregnant. I wonder who done it?” So as long as you get the job done.

Here is the transcript:

Lisa Weir: Welcome back. We hear a lot in the workplace about, we’re one big family, we’re a big team, and this is going to take teamwork to get to the top of what we need.

Jonar Nader: Yes.

Lisa Weir: You really, kind of say, “Nah, teamwork…”

Jonar Nader: Yeah.

Lisa Weir: Not your thing.

Jonar Nader: No, it doesn’t work. You see, it’s not about teamwork. I want teams that work. And how do you construct teams that work? Look, we can play golf or we like together. That doesn’t help it. We can like each other or dislike each other, that’s got nothing to do with teamwork. Teamwork is like ingredients. It’s like how a chef makes a chocolate cake. A chef cannot make a chocolate cake out of a bag of potatoes. It’s just not possible. And you cannot make a team that works out of people who like each other or dislike each other or whatever. So, it is incumbent upon managers and CEOs and the leaders of the organization to actually construct with the due diligence that a chef would construct a team that works. And within that process, in the same way the chef has to pounce on the cockroach in the kitchen, you have to pounce on the cockroaches in your organization. But there’s a trick to that. See, I was in town for the fourth of July; in fact I was in St. Louis under the arches watching the fourth of July.

Lisa Weir: Oh wow.

Jonas Nadir: And look at, there’s a great analogy about this, you know when the fireworks are going up, there’s a huge thud, “Boom” and everyone is excited by that. To me, it brings back memories of, you know, Beirut in Lebanon where that was going off 24 hours a day for twenty years. And, you know, you wonder which building’s gone down. But anyway, “Boom” and they look up. And what they were hoping to see is this big firework that had this big boom. But the funny thing about light and sound is that light travels faster than sound, so when they look up, in fact, there was nothing to see, because the fireworks already done its thing. Then they hear the thud. And that’s how managers always get into trouble. The deed is done, the criminality has taken place, the intimidations happened and then they get a detection, they go, “Where is it? Oh, can’t see it. See Jonas, there’s nothing to worry about, there’s nothing there.” I go, “But it was there a second ago, you just didn’t look.” And so that – they never react when they should. And then when they look there’s nothing there to see. And that’s the, you know, the wisdom of actually knowing what’s going on. So teamwork is not about deciding to work together, it’s constructing a team that works together.

Lisa Weir: And how do you construct a team that works together? Because of course, you’ve got multiple personalities. You’ve probably, you’ve got someone like you, maybe that’s willing to speak up, take risks, bug everybody to some degree, because doggone it, Jonar, you’re just not doing what the rest of us think is right. And then you’ve got some followers too. You’ve got people who’ll just say, “Okay whatever. I just want to get out of this meeting. I don’t want to be here anymore.” And yet, you’ll have maybe the manager of this group saying, “No, we’re fine, we’re getting along. We’re okay. This is a good team. We’ll get it done, boss.” How do they know who’s going to work in that team?

Jonas Nadir: Right. Well, that’s why I don’t care for PhDs and MBAs because that doesn’t teach you how to know. There’s no Chinese philosophy that says, “Don’t find me a good horse-rider. Find me a man who can pick good horse-riders.” You know, it’s on knowing. And one of the steps is to actually realize that there’s no such thing as self-led teams. These new, you know, wonderful things that sell books to people that have placed corporate America really well on the center-stage of this new hype that keeps going. And one of the latest bits of hype is self-led, self-manage highly effective teams. And there is no such thing either. How? Have a single leader, and the leader must have full authority and full control. Do not appoint a leader to be a team leader if that person cannot hire, fire, move, and shake on-the-spot as quickly as a tennis player throws a backhand. Have you ever seen a tennis player stop midstream at Wimbledon, run up to the coach and say, “Do you think I should do it backhand here?” You just do it. And that’s the level of expertise you need. So then the point is, hire experts. Experts work wonderfully well with experts. They love it. It inspires them to see people bouncing off each other, “You’re a great electrician. I’m a great builder. You’re a great plumber. And together we’re going to make a great building.” But it’s when the fake, supposed experts are together, “Oh, I’m the marketing director.” “How did you become a marketing director?” “Well, I did ten million dollars last year in sales.” “Well what that has got to do with understanding marketing and channel development and advertising and…” “Oh, nothing. But I’m a marketing director, so be quiet, and I’m, you know…” So, don’t put idiots who don’t have the skills together. That’s a very simple way. But now you’re at a dilemma because you have a head-count freeze. And if you get rid of somebody, you’re not going to have the authority to bring them back again, so we’re just going to make-do. And the whole world is a make-do world. And that’s just won’t worked. And we know it won’t work but we can fudge it; we can just pretend because it’s – the bottom line, it’s easy to manufacture. And thanks to our accountants, who spent seven years of college teaching us how to do it. Because any accountant can fudge, you know, fudge any figure you like. We want truth and essence. But which CEO wakes up in the morning and looks at their product, and uses their product, and sleeps in their own hotel, and uses their own ironing service and eats their own food? None. They’re out there somewhere on another planet checking the stock market, and that’s all they see. And I say, any CEO who gets up and checks that ticket type; and any executive who has a ticket type of their stock price or to be sacked on the spot. Your job is not to check the stock price. It’s to check poor Mrs. Smith the last time she paid you good money to buy her husband and I, something rather, that just doesn’t work. And when she calls to complain, you say, “Oh wow, well, twenty minutes on hold, your call is important to us, and please bring it down; it might take two weeks to repair it.” Theft. You know, if someone stole your watch or something, you’d be after them. But corporations out there, stealing your time, energy, money, effort and they just get away with it, and get away with it. And we just have to stand up and say, not because stand up for our rights, I’m not saying, “Let’s stand up for our rights.”

Lisa Weir: Right.

Jonar Nader: I’m saying, let’s stand up for life. Let’s just start living. Life is so important, yet people steal it all the time.

Lisa Weir: True. I’m going to stop you one more time. Let’s take another break. Stay with us.

Here is the transcript:

Michelle Merker: Welcome back. The book again is “How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People”. Yes, you heard that right. It is available in bookstores as well as online. Empowerment is one of those buzz words that we hear all the time. You must be empowered to achieve. What’s wrong with empowerment?

Jonar Nader: Well, because we – the moment you think that someone can empower you, you automatically have agreed that someone can also disempower you.

Michelle Merker: Controlling.

Jonar Nader: Yeah, absolutely

Michelle Merker: Someone else is controlling you.

Jonar Nader: And that doesn’t work. I cannot stand up on stage and say “I empower you” no more than I can say “you are no longer scared of spiders.” Can I do that? Can I say, “You now have confidence. You now have creativity. You are empowered.” Ridiculous. We need to look at self-empowerment. And what the boss should do to empower you is to remove things. You remove intimidations, stupidity, bureaucracy. Now, people have the opportunity to be self-empowered. We don’t want motivation; we want self-motivation. We don’t want inspiration; we want self-inspiration, because if it doesn’t happen from the self, it’s called a layer that can come on and come off at whim and it’s not part of you. It has to be a substance within you. So, beware, others who control you through either intimidation or bribery or they call it motivation or they call it incentive – it’s the new word – as a reward. Forget it. If you can’t do it at all within yourself, then you’re a nobody.

Michelle Merker: Yeah.

Jonar Nader: So, start working on it.

Here is the transcript:

Jonar Nader: I’m good in predicting huge failures in corporate life.

Lisa Weir: In the business world, relationships are everything, right? Well, my next guest has a different philosophy on how to achieve career success in a changing work place. His thoughts are outlined in a new book entitled “How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People: Leadership in the Network World.” Welcome to Jonar Nader, a digital age philosopher.

Jonar Nader: Hi Lisa.

Female Speaker: Welcome.

Jonar Nader: Thank you.

Lisa Weir: Now, explain the basic points of your workplace philosophy.

Jonar Nader: Well, as we are growing up, we’re often taught just one side of the truth. We are taught, for example, that patience is virtue; impatience is just as powerful. We need both. We are taught, for example, about fear. “Don’t touch this, don’t touch that.” Fear is an important part of life and decision-making, but how can you ever arrive at a conviction if you don’t do it with courage? So, fear balanced with courage; opposites. In a modern world, we need to do opposites simultaneously. And so, the philosophy says that, “We mustn’t always take the one side of the story unless we actually understand the other side.” So, when people say, “Go out and win friends,” I say, “Well, but, do you know how to lose friends? Do you know how to stand up; follow your heart, do what is right?” Why must you always be popular in winning friends? That shows a lack of heart, a lack of self-confidence.

Lisa Weir: Now, what are the benefits of the – of this new type of attitude, and how will companies benefit from adopting this?

Jonar Nader: Absolutely, truth. The benefit is that, you know, as kids in a playground, we tease each other a lot because kids are brutal. They, you know, if they didn’t like your dress, they’ll say, “I don’t like your dress.” Because I’ll tell you adults are exactly the same, but they won’t tell you. They’ll tell someone else. And we often sit in meetings and we think, “Gee, this is a joke. This is a waste of time. The boss doesn’t know what he’s doing or what she’s doing.” But they never tell you. What I’m saying is speak up because if…

Lisa Weir: Oh, right. Sure, sure.

Jonar Nader: Yeah.

Lisa Weir: Yeah, I’m going to tell my boss.

Jonar Nader: Well, I know, yeah, there’s a risk.

Lisa Weir: Jon that was a stupid idea, right?

Jonar Nader: Yeah. Well, it’s a risk, but, why are we kidding ourselves? Because at the end of the day, all you have is energy. When you – it all boils down. And if you are wasting your energy on diplomacy, on bureaucracy, on back stabbing, on red tape, what have you done? You’ve stolen your life. And at the end of it all, life is so precious. If someone steals your lovely car or your gold watch, you can report them to the police, you’re angry. But if someone steals your time, you don’t do anything about it. But time is life. And stealing time is stealing life. And what more could be so important?

Lisa Weir: Well, we’re always taught in American businesses that the number one thing that you have to be able to do is get along with your boss or be able to impress your boss. So, you know, by telling you boss that, you know, his or her ideas are stupid and we need to do it this way. And, you know, what are the chances that you’re going to be successful?

Jonar Nader: Right. Well, I don’t say go out and do that unless you actually understand some basic things. But first is you need to understand yourself, what value do you add? There’s no point just going out to your boss and just speaking your mind. You have to say, “I have a better idea; let me show you.” Second, the thing is you need to understand your environment, your networked world. So, the benefits, then, will be that your boss will love you for it because your boss is really after success, they want someone who has some sense of conviction, and they want someone to lead. Bosses are desperate to find someone who’s actually sure of what they’re doing. And in the absence of strong leaders, bosses tend to rule. I mean, people say to me, “Jonar, you’re a control freak.” I say, “No, I’m only a control freak when I don’t know who’s in control.” But if you’re in control and you know what you’re doing, you can be in control. And so, I think bosses would appreciate some honesty, some stability, some truth, but don’t open your mouth unless you know what you’re saying. Therefore, train yourself, develop yourself. Yeah.

Lisa Weir: You also bring up another interesting way of handling a company where you suggest that you take the salary pools of everyone, divide it by the number of employees and give everybody the same pay. Why don’t you describe that and how it – how it would work…

Jonar Nader: Sure.

Lisa Weir: … and how it has worked in actual company.

Jonar Nader: Yes – well – that – I saw it in a company once where the lights for the warehouse and the air conditioning for the warehouse cost $100 an hour to run. And over the weekend when no one was there, they were still running. And I just say to people, “Why are we wasting all this money?” $100 an hour is a lot of money. If you’re trying to make it in net profit after tax no one cared. Why didn’t I care? How hard is it to flick a switch? Well, when I said to everyone, “Look, this is costing us $15, 000 a month of wastage. If you can bring it down, I’m going to share whatever you bring it down to in half. So, if we can save $10, 000, $5,000 will go to you, and same with paper, same with electricity—anything else.” So, now, we share together, we win together. Same with profits; I said, “Look, we can all earn the same salary because now we’re all as one group. If we make a profit, we all share the profits together. Now, you don’t have a “Them and Us” situation. People cared. They know that if I damage this item, it’s going to come out. You have a sense of ownership because there’s a lot of jealousy; they see the boss driving a fancy car, $30 million salary. And they go, “Oh, well. I’ll let them worry about it.” Meanwhile, the people who are losing customers are the people earning $20, 000 and $15, 000 a year. So, why are we rewarding bosses in millions when the real action is happening at the floor? Let’s have some equity into it. Not so that, you know, I’m not saying reward people because, you know, I just want to give people money, but I’m saying, “If you want to be successful, watch out who’s ruining your customer base.

Lisa Weir: You’re from Australia, do you think that the culture in terms of the corporate world is different that would allow people to think this way more because I’m having a hard time thinking that, you know, big companies are going to be able to make changes in the corporate culture?

Jonar Nader: That’s right. That’s why I sometimes say the only way out is out and I’m good in predicting huge failures in corporate life. The Australian organizations are no different too.

Lisa Weir: They are no different, okay.

Jonar Nader: No.

Lisa Weir: Okay.

Jonar Nader: Absolutely.

Lisa Weir: Okay.

Jonar Nader: You know.

Lisa Weir: Well…

Jonar Nader: I call it, you know, American culture right there in Australia.

Lisa Weir: Oh, okay. Well, thanks for being our guest today.

Jonar Nader: Thanks Lisa.

Lisa Weir: And good luck. And I hope you don’t lose too many friends.

Jonar Nader: No. Actually, I’m doing well.

Lisa Weir: That’s it for today. Thanks for joining us on Making a Difference. And we’ll see you next week. I’m Lisa Weir

Here is the transcript:

Jonar Nader: I would invest in chemical technology. See, at the moment, if you want to build a building, you think it, you design it, you buy the materials, you build it. How easy it is for engineers to build. But chemists have a terrible time. Chemists work in the dark. They can’t see what they’re doing, and it’s all experimentation, and it’s like putting stuff and shaking the bag and hoping for goodness something will come out. And 15 years later, normally it does. But when we can get chemical technology for the same level as think, design, buy, build, wow, we can reduce the development cycle from 15 years to one year and not work with accidents.

Jonar Nader: Viagra was an accident. Penicillin was an accident. The pill was an accident. The major significant developments have always been accidents. Well, how about we actually, specifically, purposefully design? The only danger is that terrorist can then design similar. And if you think Anthrax is a problem, how about we design a chemical technology that says, “If you are an American, it will kill you, this powder?” How about we get mosquitoes and get the mosquitoes to fly and when they pierce you, if you have blonde hair, you will die, because that’s where that’s heading?

Jonar Nader: That’s the bad side. There are good sides – genetic engineering, to fix things like I no longer have to wear glasses, you can just fix that problem, going bald as I am, you could fix that problem. Speech impediments, you can fix with genetic engineering. I had a guy in my class who just couldn’t pronounce letter “R,” and the poor fellow, every time he did something wrong, the teacher would embarrass him to death – you know, talk about these teachers, I don’t know, probably in your days, too – she’d say, “Get up here and recite after me. Rabbit gave Richard a rep in the ribs for roasting the rabbit so rare.” The guy couldn’t pronounce the letter “R”. With all the dignity he could muster, he would stand up there and say, “Bob gave Dick a poke in the side for not cooking the bunny enough.” How about designer children? Yeah, exactly the way you want it. There’s a future for you, short-term, low-risk. Well, Willy went to his sister. He said, “Where did I come from?” She said, “The stork brought you, Willy.” He went to his mother. “Mummy, where did I come from? The stork brought you, Willy.” He thought he’d go to his grandmother. “Grandma, where did I come from?” “Willy, the stork brought you, and that’s enough.” Next day at school, he got up, and he said, “It’s a known fact there have been no normal sex relations in my family for three generations.”

Jonar Nader: Let’s go short-term, high-risk. How about skin farms and body parts? You could change everything almost today. You end up shaking hands with someone you’re not sure how many times you’ve met them before and how many permutations. And you realize that the baby’s foreskin, if it’s cut, that tiny little piece of skin, actually is used to grow a sheet of real skin the size of a football fields. But forget that, because, now, we can actually, make real living, breathing skin in a lab from nothing. And skin burn victims, et cetera, appreciate what that can do for them.

Jonar Nader: Human control devices, if you’re a thug of some kind, if you’re a criminal, instead of putting you into jail, every time you’re hormones play up, automatically, these jelly beans will be throughout your body, will inject you. If you have a high blood pressure, why do you have to take tablets morning and night? We’ll do it automatically through jelly beans and micro doses. If you need Viagra, it happens when it happens. So, human control devices aren’t just about controlling thieves, it’s controlling your daily life, sugar levels, et cetera. Comet mining? Boy, there’s a lot of stuff out there, but what’s stopping us from comet mining? Two obstacles and they are ownership and water. Who owns the piece of rock? And how can get enough water up on a pay load, because water is so heavy to take up, so that we can drill and mine. There are two things, but we might be able to make water up there, so that might solve that problem. Let’s go long-term, low-risk.

Jonar Nader: Long-term, biotechnology. Now, almost this very square inch Mr. Beatty was here last year or the year before for the Australian Institute of Company Directors. Is Mr. Beatty here yet, respectfully? I need to know because I need to tell you a story about him. We’ll go no further, I hope, because he did tell me in confidence. Anyway, he was standing here – well, as far as Mr. Beatty, but no further. Now, and he was declaring that biotech is where Queensland and where he’s pushing. So, perhaps, if you manage to speak with him, just feel his passion because he understands where this biotech is going so that we can help people and live a better life. My next-door neighbor was 90, sex mad, absolutely sex crazy, went to the doctor and he said, “Doctor, I want you to lower my sex drive.” And the doctor said, “You’ve got to be crazy. You’re 90 years old, for heaven’s sake. What do you mean? It’s all in your head.” He said, “I know, I know, I want it lowered.”

Jonar Nader: How about honeymoons? You thought – you thought, this act here was an act. These people know what they’re talking about. We will soon have to travel to the moon, and you can have your honeymoon up there courtesy of Hyatt. And Hilton’s already put a pitch on it. So, could we, perhaps? There’s your next venture. How do you get in to that? How do you get in to that? And, yes, you’re right Mr. Buchanan, it is expensive, absolutely expensive, but, you know, people win the lotto all the time. A friend of mine won the lotto, rang up his wife, “Sati, I’ve won, I’ve won a million dollars! Pack your bags! I’ve won!” She said, “Fantastic, Stan. What should I pack for? Summer? Winter?” He said, “I don’t care, just be gone by the time I get back.” Money is liberating. We want more of it.

Jonar Nader: How about artificial food where you can eat fish and any other such meat made in a lab and you wouldn’t know the difference? You do that Pepsi, Coke taste test, you couldn’t tell which meat comes from where. And soon you’ll have McDonalds homemade, it will be for real.

Jonar Nader: Long term high risk, nanotechnology. And funnily enough, nanotechnology is in The Financial Review today. I was having breakfast. Well, twice breakfast I’ve had. But it has got a feature on nanotech by a Grant Butler, a friend of mine. I didn’t know. I just saw it today and I thought, yeah, look, so if you get The Financial Review today, read up, but let me give you a quick, quick lesson in nanotech. It means that one day we will be able to find the – at the atomic level to build molecules so that if we need water or tomatoes or chairs, or a left foot or whatever it is, because, ultimately, they’re made of atoms, why can’t we use the genetic engineering and the chemical engineering and the biotech to build these tomatoes that we need up there at the atomic level, at the molecular level. So, nanotech is actually not about little tiny machines that can unblock your artery – which is one element – it’s about building anything and everything from the twenty or a hundred components that life’s made out of. Scary stuff.

Jonar Nader: Solar One, the first mission to the sun, so long as go at night, you’ll have no problem. Near light speed travel, I wouldn’t be so daft to talk about light speed travel. Not just yet, but, boy, I do believe in near light speed travel. And decomp, where you decompose yourself and recompose yourself anyway you like, you can be in London in three minutes flat. Of course, your luggage will end up in Singapore, but that’s another problem.