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Naomi Robson: A story that Packer and Murdoch media empires won’t tell that young Lachlan and James have lost Aussie battlers a fortune.

Jonar Nader: You can join forces all you like but not when you then have to go to some poor pensioner somewhere and say, ‘Hey guys, how would you like to buy a few pieces of paper?’

Naomi Robson: How do so called whiz kids got sucked in by the old school tie. Hello. I’m Naomi Robson. The first of One.Tel collapse and the Murdoch and Packer families won’t like this story and you won’t read about it in the Murdoch press or see it on the Packer television network. James Packer and Lachlan Murdoch have been pointing the finger at one One.Tel whiz kids, Jodee Rich and Brad Keeling and crying foul. They claimed they’ve been profoundly misled but that’s a little consolation to the tens of thousands of Aussie battlers who lost their money when the telephone company collapsed.

As Norman Bayman reports, it may be convenient but it’s not that easy to shift the blame.

Norman Bayman: The elite Cranbrook Boy School is a who’s who of whose privilege in Australia. The school in Sydney is exclusive eastern suburbs fosters networks of power and influence. It’s not just a case of what you know but who you can get to know. And when it comes to the rich list, Cranbrook is at the top of the class. Three former students who fit the criteria on every count are James Packer, son of Kerry, media and gambling magnet, Rodney Adler, son of the late Larry Adler, founder of insurance company, FAI, and Jody Rich, son of Steven Rich, founder of travel group, Travel Land. Jodee Rich is the co-founder of One.Tel.

Male 1: We had Rodney Adler. His name has been quite prominent of late. He and Jodee Rich and James all – all knew each other through what’s called the Cranbrook Circle A all mixed in that Sydney eastern suburb social click.

Norman Bayman: Jon Jury is from the Fairfax own Financial Review.

Male 1: Through that friendship, I think Jodee was able to convince James of what a great idea he had and then James and Lachlan obviously saw a lot of each other and that was connect – and that was – and that through those three together.

Norman Bayman: Throw in another champ, Lachlan Murdoch, he spent his schooling years overseas but any friend of James Packer with a name Murdoch has an open invitation to the exclusive boys club.

Male 2: I think if you don’t live here, you just can’t be out.

Norman Bayman: These young movers and shakers are the key players in One.Tel, the telephone company that hit the wall and a big slice of $1 billion is at stake.

Packer and Murdoch are not the biggest losers. News Limited and Publishing and Broadcasting, are publicly-owned companies. Tens of thousands of Australian moms and dads, many having invested in superannuation funds backing the Packer-Murdoch names are the people who will feel the pinch. And also, people who directly invested into One.Tel.

Male 1: Well, moms and dads shareholders are clearly the big losers, people who followed the name at the start. They don’t – they don’t have the billions of dollars behind them to – to compensate for loses like these.

Norman Bayman: Jodee Rich was a hunted man today. His mansion was staked out and the big fingers of James Packer and Lachlan Murdoch were being pointed directly at him.

The word misled was becoming a cliché in the Murdoch press and on Packer television but others wouldn’t buy it.

Jonar Nader: They did achieve what they wanted to achieve. Precisely, they got the share price from nothing to nothing. I mean, what more brilliant a success do you want than that?

Norman Bayman: Jonar Nader is a finance expert and author.

Jonar Nader: What I care is that somewhere along the line, your grandmother and mine put their last little few cents of saving in it on the back of wow, the brand. We’ve got Packer and Murdoch behind it. What better brand name can you want in a marketplace and what’s your grandmother and mine going to do? They’re going to be ripped off. That’s what they’re going to do.

Norman Bayman: There’s no doubt that Packer and Murdoch names entice investors to back One.Tel.

Male 3: Yes, yes, definitely.

Male 4: Why is that?

Male 5: Well, I presumed with the resource that they have that they would research a company properly.

Male 7: But very surprising that two so well-connected people could make the mistakes. It just goes to show that even the – even the big boys can lose it like the average punters .

Norman Bayman: Jodee Rich and Brad Keeling have a lot to answer for. But young Packer and Murdoch also face scrutiny.

Male 1: Well, they’re obviously – they’d be liable to any – any claims that people might make against the company. And – and there would be claims that investors may have made on the basis of their involvement in the company or on the basis of a negligence claim. That’s a – that’s I must say, a big ask at this stage of the game but potentially is.

Norman Bayman: It’s hard to imagine James and Lachlan’s fathers will be impressed.

Male 1: In the case of the Murdoch family, that’s a bit of a question mark over who’s going to replace Rupert, the Lachlan is seen as the favourite at the moment. And clearly, people are going to sort of keep remembering this One.Tel disaster. And – and likewise, James was very much the – the new technology champion in his family and his father was – was always the skeptic. And so, he’s obviously going to have to do a bit of talking with his father I would think to – to prove that new technology is actually the money spender he – he says it is.

Naomi Robson: Norman Bayman reporting there. Now, to Australia’s biggest home builder, Henley Home.

Low-res version 6 Mb 3 mins and 40 secs

High-res version 11 Mb 3 mins and 40 secs

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Naomi Robson: Now, to the extraordinary about face by one of Australia’s richest bosses. When Paul Anderson left BHP, he pocketed $18 million but now, with his money safely in the bank, he’s decided to hit out with the huge payouts to other corporate high flyers.

Paul Anderson: It’s time to pause and let the marketplace settle down and then recalibrate what’s appropriate for executive compensation.

Naomi Robson: That’s double talk for a very simple message. Fat cat bosses, your days are numbered. Paul Anderson, he just pocketed a staggering $18 million for quitting his job as one of Australia’s highest paid bosses, chief of BHP.

Paul Anderson: I believe the time is right for boards to take a hiatus on the annual market review of executive compensation.

Naomi Robson: Hypocritical? You be the judge. Now, he’s calling for a freeze on executive payouts even though his is the largest ever handed out in Australia.

Gerry Harvey: He’s only there for five minutes on the job, flick the company into another company, walks away with millions of dollars and he’s a genius. I don’t know that even if they figured out what was happening at BHP and that’s only my opinion.

Naomi Robson: Star CEO, Gerry Harvey is one of Australia’s most successful self-made millionaires. Even he can’t believe some of the money that’s being thrown around.

Gerry Harvey: In a lot of cases, it is criminal because you’ve had these people that are, you know, it’s like – it’s like why are they getting all this money for something that they – they don’t deserve.

Naomi Robson: Wouldn’t it be good indeed. And there’s plenty going around. Have a look at these jackpot winners paid mega millions from their listed companies for retiring, failing, even bailing. George Trumbull departed AMP with a whooping $12.12 million payout. And what about BHP boss, John Prescott. He pocketed $11.17 million despite the company writing off billions under his leadership. Then there’s Dennis Eck of Coles Myer, happy as Larry jumping ship with a cool $8.65 million bounty.

Jonar Nader: Executives today are celebrities, not perhaps as well known in every house but they’re certainly very well-known in every boardroom.

Naomi Robson: Author of How to Lose Friends and Infuriate Your Boss, Jonar Nader, believes many executives sign on knowing it’s only for the short-term. He says, the golden handshake is silence money.

Jonar Nader: Really, in a way, it’s a golden handcuff rather than golden handshake.

Mark Markson: If you’re on movie studio and you want to make a hot movie, so you’ll – you’ll buy Tom Cruise for $20 million or Mel Gibson or Julia Roberts. It’s the same with corporations.

Naomi Robson: These days, star CEOs are being head-hunted like movie stars and top athletes. Sports agent, Max Markson says, “It’s justified considering the currency they can generate.”

Mark Markson: They’re blank talent exactly the same as a football team.

Gerry Harvey: I think when an executive has done a terrible job in a company and they’ve been there, one, two, three, four years and they walk away with millions of dollars, I think it’s just dreadful. And they’re to fix all the good people out there in the business world.

Naomi Robson: They’re coming up the bottom line.

Low-res version 16 Mb 9 mins

High-res version 30 Mb 9 mins

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Mike: … Jonar Nader believes there are important job skills you will never get taught that are the key to your success. Things like intolerance, impatience and the ability to fight. Now, Jonar Nader’s book, How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People was controversial before anyone read the first page. The title, the takeoff of course, of Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People got a thread of a lawsuit.

Inside What’s Wrong with Business, how business is hold back by a lack of imagination, not understanding their customers, not being able to absorb shocks, allowing underlings to suck up to the boss, and now to understand that wealth creation not wealth depletion is the key to future success.

Jonar Nader is with us. Good morning.

Jonar Nader: Hello, Mike.

Mike: Old wisdom. Now here’s – I disagree with you. Old wisdom is strive for world’s best practice. That’s the old wisdom. Your new wisdom, don’t look to be the best in the world, look to become the best you can be. That’s just PC bullet.

Jonar Nader: No, not all because actually if you pace yourself, you often find people who are in teh race, in any Olympics, I say to you, ‘I keep my eye on the guy in front and I pace myself.’ So really, they’re quite happy so long as they’re beating neither guy in front. And I say, ‘But you’ve just set the standard.’ That doesn’t mean that’s the world’s best standard. When you are in an organization, if all you do is say, ‘Oh, my competitor does this so we should do that.’ You’re not actually inventing. You’re not actually innovating. You’re not actually doing what the customer wants you to do. I don’t want you to do the world’s best practice in hotels. I can tell you hotels, hey don’t we stay in them? And what do they say? I am a business traveler and I always arrive late at night. The gym is closed. Every restaurant is closed. The laundry is closed. And you tell me there is not a hotel in the world where I can get my shirt ironed and they look at you funny when you say, ‘Can you please iron my shirt?’ That’s the world’s best practice for you. I tell you what would be fantastic is to have my key ready on check in and don’t ask me the same questions 50 million times you already know.

Mike: Tell me about the brand – the brand bet. Tell me what the brand bet is.

Jonar Nader: Well, people say, ‘What is the most important asset in your company?’ What do they say, staff, right? I go, hang on a minute. Now, staff are not your asset to begin with, okay? You should – you should stop thinking you own them because you own furniture but you don’t own staff. The most important thing in the future for companies will be the brand but not the brand in which we’re taught. Of course, brand awareness and brand tolerance and brand values are all vital but the most important thing of the future will be the brand bet. And by that, I mean if you’re computer fails, what is the bet that you will pick up the phone and you will be on there for 20 minutes on hold with ding dong music? What is the bet that the person you talk to doesn’t know what you’re talking about and says, ‘Delete everything and if it’s still causing you problem…’ How can I delete everything? I need my computer. What’s the bet that, you know, if you actually want to escalate they’re going to charge you $40 for a call? Well, I’ll put $10,000 on it here and now on national television and I’m telling you that’s my bet because that’s what’s happens.

And so, in the future, people will judge you by what they’re prepared to bet on. Meaning, if my fancy car breaks down, what’s my real feeling? What’s my gut? Oh gosh, it’s going to be such a hassle. They’re going to get it wrong. That is what your company is worth. Don’t tell me your company is worth $15 trillion on the stock market because you have an intangible brand value of a $100 billion. You have nothing. Your customer will determine your brand value and what the brand is worth based on what the customer believes you will and won’t do because there’s a lot of rhetoric and very little on delivery.

Now, I don’t mind if you don’t want to deliver. I don’t mind if you want to make bad cars but don’t you dare take my 100% perfect money and give me a bad car, bad toaster, and a bad …

Mike: Which is one of your ideas for the future that I find most fascinating. What would happen in the future, and this is what people should think about, what would happen in the future if the money freezes, if your product doesn’t work? Which is an interesting idea but how does it – how would it work? I mean, in a wide world, how does your money freeze?

Jonar Nader: Well, for example, in the future you will not sale me a washing machine, you will give it to me and say, ‘At the moment …’ you sale me the washing machine and I have to hassle and you’ve got my perfect money and I’ve got a perfect – not an imperfect product. But in the future, you will give me the washing machine and you will charge me per cycle. In the future, every car will have what’s called an IP address, an internet protocol address and you will charge me per kilometer. At the moment, we do that with mobile phones. You charge me per call. I give you the phone free of charge.

So in the future, you will have to care if you product fails because I’ll say to you, ‘Look mate, it’s your washing machine. You pick it up.’ What do they say now? “You know, oh yes, please hold the line and we’ll come and repair sometime between 9AM and 5PM.’ But I’ve got to go to work. ‘Oh no, not until 5PM. Where do you live Mr. Nader? Anywhere between Christchurch and Wellington. Now, let’s – let’s negotiate you know.’ I mean, what do you mean not until 5.

Mike: There’s an idea in your book that that – I mean, a lot of those see theory versus reality. It’s easy to make winners than find winners. This is about recruitment we’re talking about before we came on air. I mean, that’s a great idea but doesn’t work in reality, does it?

Jonar Nader: Oh no, it does work in reality in the sense that …

Mike: But no one would disagree with it. If I went into a CEO, many companies say that it’s easier to make winners than find winners. They say yes to this but don’t do it.

Jonar Nader: Oh, what works and they don’t do are two different things. I mean, the issue is I know that we all know how to make a cake and we all have flour and we all have sugar and we all have eggs and we all have an oven we probably have the ingredients sitting right now at home but how many of us can actually make it? The process of knowing is not good enough. The process of actually fusing these things together is what’s important. So many of us are Harvard graduates and Yale graduates, many of us got these silly MBAs and we know it but how many of us can actually make it?

So, what I try to do and say, knowing is not enough. You’ve actually got to learn how to fuse these things together. So, when you fuse fear and courage, you arrive at conviction. So many of us know fear, I mean that we know it so back to front that our heart starts to palpitate, you know. But how many of us know courage in equal dose? And how many of us can merge fear and courage together and arrive at conviction and say, ‘Thank you very much. I have decided to be patient or I have decided to be impatient.’ So many of us just stick by our virtues because we’re told to be good, we’re told be tolerant. I go, okay it’s good to be good and tolerant but did you decide to be tolerant today or you’re just a coward and you can’t stand up to the issue?

Mike: Alright. Other ideas on the future. What would happen if you no longer had a help disc? You argue a help disc is a liability.

Jonar Nader: Oh, a help disc will be a thing of the past because they were never invented to help anybody in the first place. They were invented because the guys in the factory kept producing rubbish and the customers were complaining. So they said, can we somehow fund all this cost? And the future will not have a help disc because they are destroying organizations. Now, the help disc can only exist if the person on the help disc could have the full authority to make the – all the decisions necessary to appease the customer. If not, stop taking my money and thieving it.

Let me tell you why the future help disc will disappear because courts will rule in the future that my time on hold, you will have to pay for. So, while I’m waiting 20 minutes on hold, you will have to pay for me. And I’ve done this assessment here for New Zealand, Australia, and the US. In New Zealand, it’s a $7 billion liability for corporations if they had to pay this today. And I say this to executives, I say, ‘Open up your spreadsheet and tell me what your – where your business would be today if you had to go on brand bet? Meaning, not what you think your brand is worth but what customers are willing to bet. Well, it won’t happen. And where will your business be today if your money froze when my washing machine didn’t work? And if you had to pay for your customers on hold?’

Mike: That would be great.

Jonar Nader: They will be absolutely broke and they will – laws will be passed to actually force them to do that. And to me, I’m a futurist, I say, ‘You can engineer your future. Learn about these issues. Preempt them. Don’t do world’s best practice. Go and say, ‘What can I preempt?’ Futurists say, what are the likely scenarios? How do I build the bridge into that scenario? How do I prepare the buffer zone?

Mike: Yes. But you’re looking at people by being like you. Not everyone is like you. Not everyone can see the future. I mean, if everyone can see the future, we would be doing all right, wouldn’t we?

Jonar Nader: Well, I don’t – I’m not – I have no extra special qualities other than an observer. My three greatest strengths are observation, memory, and analysis. So, I’m not sure that any – I’m so different to anybody else.

Mike: What would happen if the customers have the chance to participate in an exit poll?

Jonar Nader: Oh, can you imagine?

Mike: Isn’t that fascinating?

Jonar Nader: I say to people – they say, the bottom line is the most important thing in companies. And I say, no, no, no. Then I say, ‘Oh hang on. You know, the triple bottom line is the most important thing.’ They say, ‘What’s that?’ I say, ‘Well, triple bottom line is you have to take care of profits, you have to take care of the environment, and you have to take care of society.’ That’s called the triple bottom line. It’s being taught all over the MBAs at the moment. And I say, ‘That’s still useless. Talk to me about the triple top line. It’s your staff, your quality, and your customers.’ Now, what was the question you asked me about?

Mike: The exit poll.

Jonar Nader: The exit poll. The top line is where it happens. So, if I’m going to buy this company out, I don’t want to look at your bottom line. I want to – I want to see the exit poll that says, ‘Dear Mr. Nader, thank you for calling us here at XYZ Corporation. Before you hang up, please press 1 if you think we’re a bunch of rat bugs, press 2 if you think we’ve answered your question. Please press 1 if you think you like our Managing Director to call you because you have no satisfaction. Press 2 if you think …’ And they will tell me on the spot, by the second, by the customer, who thinks you’re a rat bug and who’s not. I mean, how many times have you hang up and you thought, what a waste of time? That’s – as a Manager, that’s what I want to know. As it happens not six months later or after a survey and after people do all these customer relation surveys. By the time you get the statistician to give you the marketing report, it’s 10, 12 months later and the air has dissipated.

Mike: We got to wrap this up in 30 seconds. The great leaders of today, people like Gates and Murdoch, are they men of the future or men of today?

Jonar Nader: Look, it’s such a – I – I don’t think these people have vision because I’ve – I grow up – I grew up with Gates, you know because I was, gosh there. I’ve been 22 years in the IT industry. And good luck to them. They want to make money. They can make money but every single day, I cursed the day I have to reboot my computer five times a day. It’s absolute …

Mike:

Jonar Nader: Don’t we all?

Mike: Don’t we all. It’s a terrific book. And nice to meet you. There it is, Jonar Nader. Have a quick look. How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People. It’s terrific. Alright. It’s eight minutes away from 9.

Female: Fantastic stuff and if that doesn’t rocket you out of bed, nothing will …

Here is the transcript:

Jonar Nader: Quality. Look, you can give any quality you like. I’m not suggesting buy quality that is good or that is bad. I’ll tell you what it has to be. It has to be what you promised. What did I say? What did I say?

Participant: I think there are people that were yelling at consistently.

Jonar Nader: Oh, who’s saying consistent? You want a book? Okay. Four people get a book there.

I’m unpredictable. Don’t you go calling out unannounced, you might get your book taken away from you.

When I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.

Now, quality. It’s what you promised. Now, you know, I love quality orders on promised orders. Pick out any ad for BMW or Mercedes Benz or this insurance company or that company and read the superfluous superlatives that just tell you that we are the best and the greatest and the this and the that and there is just nothing left beyond it. The ultimate shaver. Apparently, Gillette was the ultimate shaver. Then you have to have two. Now, I’ve got three. Apparently, it’s four and my friends told me there’s a five thingy now. I said, ‘Why don’t you put just a wall and just scrape your head against the wall and be done with it?’

But everyone if you read them, it says, the ultimate shaving pleasure. Oh, no. Let’s put three blades, the ultimate shaver. What’s more beyond ultimate? Stop using such words and yet you read all the promises that people make. No wonder the quality is hopeless because you can never reach the promise. The promise is so high. It’s incredible and pointless. Don’t make promises you cannot deliver. That – that’s a question of quality.

I was at Greater Union Cinemas only two, three days ago. Have you noticed that they have this thing called internet booking? So, if you book online and say, movie, you can come and jump the kid. Now, if you belong to Greater Union and you heard of this new marketing program, what would you say and do? Is this a good idea? Say people from waiting? Do you think it’s a good idea?

Well, as with all good ideas, the execution is flawed. I was at the biggest cinema in George Street, Sydney. I was in this line. There was another line here, another line here and another line here. There’s four of us waiting. I have photos if any of you dis – disbelieve me. I have photos on my computer. I’ll show you. And the line went out all the way to George Street like a hundred people. Four times a hundred. That’s four. This here was jump the queue. And he said, internet bookings come here but there was no one serving. So, what happened? The internet queue was here and I was here. And this milady was serving them, serving them, serving them, serving them, serving them. They’re going, ‘Stuff you mate.’

And you know, I don’t – you know, I don’t have – you know, I – and I confronted the woman. I said, ‘Excuse me. What’s the logic in this? So, the rest of you, stuff you and if you have an internet, come to us and you know, don’t assume. Watch what you’re doing here.’ And the reason I worry is because I’ve been to Greater Union that many times and I’ve seen their ads and their ads are marvelous. They all hug each other. And have you seen the Greater Union ads? People just, you know, moving about. There was nothing lovey dovey about this, waiting for 35 minutes. There’s no hope of moving because the – despite being a Qantas and I’m a Qantas member and I get a priority ticket wherever I go, but we business people because we all travel at the same time, at 7AM in the morning. We’re all Qantas members and we all get priority. And I – I have pictures right here. I can show you that my bag being the last one out.

Because we’re all priority members. I do not like any form of priority service whatsoever. I do not approve of gold card members, platinum card members, black, clear, plastic or otherwise. It just does not work. Why? Because it says to the staff members, not let’s give this people a better service. It translates into giving other people less better service.

So, do you think your platinum card goes to another number? No. It just flashes up a platinum. I’ve been waiting for 25 minutes because I’m a mere gold. Card goes in and he pushes in. It’s not that he’s getting his own operator, he’s barging in so I’m the inconvenienced. I don’t approve of that because it’s actually teaching the staff that says, some people can get stuffed basically. Bad attitude. Quality.

Here is the transcript:

Jonar Nader: If you go to the most fantastic of business schools, the modern issues today that are plaguing organizations are sort of summarized in – I don’t like the number seven but, you know, there are top 10 things and up there is that three heads are better than one. They have worked out that somehow, teamwork is a good thing. Number six on the list of things that they are preaching to organizations is that we need to make tangible offers, offers that people understand. That we need to focus on the bigger picture, we need to embrace competition even though you might think you have a monopoly on certain things. Think like someone who’s competing. Survey your customers and innovate or fade. Innovate or fade. And the number one which is the big thing is keep costs down. That’s the biggest mantra at the moment. Keep costs down, that you will hear everywhere. Well, that is the true but they are again misplaced. So let me go through each one of them and tell you what I think of those.

Keep costs down. Have you watched television after 11:00 PM at night? It seems to me that every TV executive thinks that we all have acne. We all need ab blasters for our stomach. And what else? Oh, and that we cook a lot. We need knives. 360 days of the year apparently, time and again, that’s what they dish out. Why? Because some TV goon worked out that they could save a lot of money. They could cut a lot of costs if they get rid of normal programming and just get someone to pay them to advertise at you. That’s not keeping costs down. If you think that keeps costs down, well then just run the knife ads day and night. That keeps costs down at channel 7, wouldn’t it?

So what has happened here is you’ve had some goon with all the resources of CNN and the BBC and the world channels and every multimedia under the sun, and thousands in the archives… and the best they can give me is the same knife commercial 360 days of the year. What a disgrace on an organization that has so many resources. So it’s not about, oh, let’s get cost down. That’s the wrong mentality.

This is a photo I just put up there recently from New Zealand. I stayed at a hotel in New Zealand and I’ve been watching this morph. First that you should read, breakfast bacon and eggs and then they peeled the S off to cut costs.

Jonar Nader: And I thought – and then, I came back another few months later and I don’t know if you could see up here. It says from $6 and now they put a red from $6. And I thought, gosh, why don’t you just say bacon, tomato and toast and save even more money?

Jonar Nader: It’s not about keeping costs down. It’s about doing your best. Do your best. Look at the mentality difference. Instead of saying, ‘Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the Annual Staff Meeting. Please go out and do the very best you can.’ I love it in hotels. If Oprah Winfrey walks up and says, ‘Look, do you have salt-free butter?’ They’ll probably say, ‘Oh, just a minute,’ and then run out at the back to the local 7/11 and buy some. But if little old Jonar says, ‘Excuse me, do you have salt-free–’ No, sorry. That’s all we got.

And so, my theory is that we should train everyone first by asking them, who’s their favorite idol. They’ll say Elvis Presley. They’ll say Madonna. They’ll say Oprah Winfrey. I would say fine. Then any question asked by any client ought to be done to the Oprah Winfrey test. If it’s at all feasible to get salt-free butter by any which means for Oprah and you would do it because you lovingly want to, then you must do it for John Smith and Mary Smith.

Always do your best. It’s not about cutting costs. Then we were told to innovate or fade. What is the world’s most expensive, most used, most profitable, least advanced product? We’re told to innovate or fade. Innovation apparently is what everybody wants. You know, I’m telling you that the least advanced product today is the most used and the most profitable and the most expensive, hugely expensive, the most expensive. What – today, right now, 90 million of them a second and they are 100 years old and they are supposedly new.

Jonar Nader: SMS. SMS is so expensive that if you would look at a car in a showroom for $20,000 …

Jonar Nader: … or say $30,000 then the equivalent rip-off value is like buying a car for $3,000,000. SMS is the most profitable, most used, least advanced text Morse Code you’ve ever seen. No, it’s not that people want innovation. They want you to add value.

Here is the transcript:

Female Speaker: The social observer, philosopher, author and lecturer, Jonar Nader has spent years studying people and their habits and he knows some tricks to surviving in the corporate jungle and he joins us now.

Jonar Nader: So I used to get up from a meeting and say, ‘Excuse me. I have an appointment with life. I am going, not putting up with this nonsense.’

Female Speaker: What? Are you nuts?

Jonar Nader: I almost got caught.

Jonar Nader: Because in the future, I can tell you, money will be linked to performance.

And what next? What will be the next big thing?

The idea about being a futurist is not that you’re this clairvoyant. My friend’s father was a clairvoyant and his mother was a contortionist and as a result, he could foresee his own end.

Jonar Nader: My father said to my mother, ‘You know, we have been married 36 years. And not once have we agreed on anything.’ She said, ‘Thirty-seven.’

Female Speaker: His new book Z is a fictional novel about the worst act of terrorism the world could ever see.

Jonar Nader: Even if I were the president of the world for 10 years, I still could not think of a way to generate peace. I finally did.

Half of the world is in conflict. Half of the world is at war. And I see it as a war on our destiny rather than a war on terror.

You must be forbidden from working anywhere, touching anything if you don’t know what it feels like, what it tastes like. You know, what’s on the menu? Chicken. What does it taste like? I don’t know. I just work here. Well, find me someone who doesn’t work here so I can find out.

Jonar Nader: In the future, companies who put us on hold will have to pay for our time.

And I think there should be two types of managers, the manager that says, ‘Any problem you have, come to me. I’ll fix it,’ or the manager who says, ‘Look, any problem you see, go fix it and I’ll back you up.’

Terminal.

Jonar Nader: They say the bottom line is the most important thing in companies. And I say no, no, no. Then they say, oh, hang on. You know, the triple bottom line is the most important thing. Oh, yes? What’s that? I say, the triple bottom line is you have to take care of profits, you have to take care of the environment and you have to take care of society. That’s called the triple bottom line. It’s being taught all over the MBAs at the moment. I say, that’s still useless. Talk to me about the triple top line. It’s your staff, your quality and your customers.

Teamwork is a lot of nonsense because it doesn’t work. What I want are teams that work.

See, I don’t think you can share energy or you can share power because the most you do, you’ll dissipate it. So, in essence, the function of power for me is to generate momentum. There is this notion of the perceived power. For example, people think that the queen is powerful or that a minister is powerful. What people do not realize is that in fact, it is the department that runs the minister, not the minister that runs the department.

Do you know how we say power corrupts? You know this notion. I don’t believe that power corrupts either. I think certainly corruption is powerful and that’s why people seem to steer away from power but in itself, it is better to have power than not.

Male Speaker: Jonar, you get the last word.

Female Speaker: Stick around, would you?

Jonar Nader: Yes, sure.

Female Speaker: Thank you.

Female Speaker: Jonar Nader is a digital age philosopher. For the past 22 years, he has maintained a dual career as an expert in both technology and management and presents to both kinds of audiences.

Jonar Nader: Are you actually delivering on your promise?

Female Speaker: For example, he was the opening speaker for the IT Summit and the CEO Summit. Sometimes, Jonar wears two hats at the same conference as he did for the Institute of Company Directors where he gave two keynotes, one about leadership and another about technology and the future.

Jonar Nader: So, is it good to always have a bit of dirt in the bottom drawer? On someone.

Male Speaker: How does it come down for you, Jonar Nader?

Jonar Nader: Well, I’m glad you’ve asked me this question now that I’m a consultant…

Jonar Nader: Because I’m making a lot more money now.

Jonar Nader: Whenever I see a bad employee, my first impression is, ‘Who is his boss?’ And so, I would like to know why that happened and spend my energy there because …

Male Speaker: Well, you were his boss…

Female Speaker: Whether he’s humorous or controversial, Jonar delivers tantalizing messages.

Male Speaker: The irrepressible Mr Jonar Nader.

Female Speaker: He’s known for his captivating after dinner speeches like the one he presented at the Australian Business Awards.

Jonar Nader: So, what’s going to be the most important thing for your business is your brand. And when I say brand, I don’t mean just only your logo or your brand awareness of brand image or brand building or brand recall or brand values. As important as they are, the single biggest important thing about brand is the brand bet. That means what the customer is prepared to bet on.

The issue is I know that we all know how to make a cake and we all have flour and we all have sugar and we all have eggs and we all have an oven and we probably have the ingredients sitting right now at home. But how many of us can actually make it? The process of knowing is not good enough.

Female Speaker: Around the world, tens of thousands of people have attended Jonar’s presentations. He’s popular with professionals in finance, law, science, technology, manufacturing and sales.

Jonar Nader: I don’t want to hear any more terms and conditions and conditions apply…

Most people don’t learn a new word after the age of 18. Their vocabulary stays the same thereafter. Most people don’t have a new dream beyond, you know, whatever they’ve been – now, that’s it, mate. You’re going to be a plumber the rest of your life.

I say to kids, don’t worry about what you are going to be when you grow up. How you’re going to live as you are living.

Female Speaker: Jonar Nader is the author of the best-selling book How to Lose Friends and Infuriate People. He has also written a book of modern wisdom called How to Lost Friends and Infuriate Thinkers.

Jonar Nader: If you stand up and rise and say, ‘Look boss, you know, I really don’t think this is the way we should be doing it,’ then others will get – gain energy from you because it usually just takes the minority to create something big.

Female Speaker: What’s your view on anger and what it does to us, our bodies and its purpose?

Jonar Nader: If anger happens, you stop and say, ‘This is great. The alarm bells have gone off. Now is the time to assess why.’ Not go down the pub and, you know, laugh it off but to say, ‘What triggered this? Because this is not the trigger that I will allow into my life.’

Customer service isn’t just about being nice to people. It’s about product knowledge, knowing your industry inside out, knowing everything about everything you can possibly know. If you don’t get out of the way because selling is as much a profession as nuclear physics.

Are you actually delivering on your promise? And if we do that, the rest will take care of itself.

Any executive who has a ticker tape of their stock price or to be sacked on the spot. Your job is not to check the stock price. It’s a check about Mrs. Smith the last time she paid you good money to buy her husband a nice something rather that just doesn’t work and when she calls to complain, you say, ‘Oh, wow. Well, 20 minutes on hold. Your call is important to us. And please bring it down. It might take two weeks to repair it. Theft!

Today on Wall Street, people are just running around for bottom line figures. And what are they doing? They’re really only cheating themselves because Wall Street is a joke and the sooner it blows up, the better.

So many corporations are failing today because there is a them and us attitude. We might think we’re making profits but they’re all manipulated. The real profit comes when people are actually satisfied, happy.

For me, success is not what you amass. It’s what you …

And if you hate your boss, do not treat your boss badly. If you don’t like what you are doing, all the more reason to do it better so that you can climb out.

You know, and who gets promoted in corporate life today? The backstabbers who know how to do it well enough.

Male Speaker:

Jonar Nader: You know, the creative people. Where do they end up?

If I put this on my head, people will go, ‘What’s this guy on television got this on his head for?’ Because the visible things, everyone is an expert at. They can see that’s wrong. But can they see that someone is a back stabber, a manipulator, a hound, a con artist? Can they? I don’t think executives and people in an office environment can see it.

Female Speaker: Jonar is also the author of the best-selling illustrated Dictionary of Computing and the technology writer for Butterworth’s Legal Dictionary and the Student’s Legal Dictionary. He also serves as an expert witness to the legal profession.

Jonar Nader: Unfortunately, the internet will have to collapse before it rebuilds itself.

Male Speaker: It will be exciting, real funny up here.

Male Speaker: That’s a must for everybody.

Male Speaker: Jonar C. Nader.

Male Speaker: Jonar: Stiff!

Female Speaker: Jonar’s last assignment as a corporate executive was at IBM where he led the consumer division in 18 countries. He’s the co-founder of both the Information Technology Society and The Leadership Foundation funded by McKinsey and Company and Qantas. Programs have been held at the Royal Military College and at the University of New South Wales. As a guest lecturer at tertiary institutions, he conducts his courses on technology, leadership, management, advertising, marketing and politics.

Jonar is a coach to high profile executives. He gives thousands of radio and TV interviews worldwide. His articles are published in some of the most respected business and IT publications. As a magazine editor and writer, he has worked for motor racing, art and fashion magazines and has held exclusive interviews with the likes of Stuart Devlin, jeweler to Her Majesty the Queen.

Jonar has interviewed the biggest names in art and design including Count Faber Castell and fashion gurus such as Jean Muir, designer to the late Princess Diana. He has interviewed many fashion giants including Count Zegna, Lagerfeld, Missoni, Kenzo and the late Gianni Versace.

Female Speaker: As the chairman of Logictivity, Jonar Nader guides CEOs and boards to engineer a successful future. To learn more, please visit Logictivity.com and find out how the world’s only post-tentative, virtual surrealist can rearrange your molecules.

Here is the transcript:

Host: Jonar, you spoke about increasing productivity and profitability as well and the point you made about doing it one time but doing it right really resonated with me. Can you just expand on that and your thoughts of how that might pertain to our real estate industry as well as any industry.

Jonar Nader: Sure. Well, my company Logictivity, it does training and we conduct proper consultancy services in terms of research and analysis. And I conducted this huge investigation into the profitability of companies. And why is this company profitable and why did this company not make a profit? Because it amazed me that when you look at all the university studies of corporations who have boomed, and on the graph, they go sales increase, increase, increase. People go, ‘Wow, look at the sales increase.’ And then you say, show me the profitability, it goes the other way. Sales go up, profitability goes down. And I asked myself, ‘How is this?’ I would have thought everything should go up together. I would have thought that the economies of scale, if anything rather than this dip. So I went out in search of why profitability dips when revenue increases.

And I found out that it is a question of inefficiency. And so, the study I conducted showed this. If we ask why didn’t you make a profit and delve into it, it was because of the double handling. So a company would say to me, ‘We lost actually money last year.’ I said, ‘Why?’ They said, ‘Well, because this is what it took to make the business.’ I said, ‘How much of that activity was making business and how much of that activity was redoing, resending, re-faxing, apologizing, going to court, recalling the product?’ Have you seen the hundreds of thousands of products that are recalled every year? And I think if only you just waited like 24 hours before you launched the product. Like I was only reading the paper just yesterday, I think, and it said a particular toy is being recalled. Why? Because there is a small element in it, for the child could choke on it. I mean, is this new? Don’t we always know there’s an element of choking in toys and they’re still recalling them? Why launch them in the first place? And imagine the money that is hemorrhaging, the loss of profitability.

Now, if you count that in terms of what it costs to rectify, it is huge but it is backroom stuff. And it’s like going to the well collecting all this wealth and money and someone in the backroom has got the tap turned on. And that’s because no one understands the value of the dollar. The best question you can ask any business is, ‘What do you have to do to generate one dollar net profit after tax?’ So let’s suppose you sell a mug, a coffee mug. And I’ll walk to you, any staff member of yours, your receptionist or forklift driver or anybody and I say, ‘That’s a nice mug. It sells for $30. How many of these do we have to sell to make one dollar net profit after tax?’

First of all, people don’t know what I mean by net profit. Don’t know what I mean by after tax but meaning after you paid for all the expenses and everything. The answer to the question is first, no one knows. And it takes a while to actually sort it out. And when we do find out, they don’t believe it. I have done this study so many times in so many corporations from car sales, organizations to hotels. And I ask them this question. And every time I present the findings, the chair votes with the board. We must reconvene while this is tested. They never believe it. And I’ll give you an example why because it is so shockingly low because actually, the amount of money that you make selling a product to make $1 net profit after tax, the energy is so high, you start to question whether you should be in business or not.

So, when I see a colleague throwing a ream of paper, that’s worth $6. Leaving the lights on all weekend, that costs $100 in a huge space, you know, industrial light. Air-condition on is $100 an hour. And I make $40 when I sell a machine and if I get an order for five, someone is celebrating and buys me a beer. So, do you see the mismatch here? So, start with this question. What does it take to make $1 net profit after tax then go and say, ‘How many times have we touched this piece of paper? How many times has this client had to call us? How many times has this truck had to go and come back?’

And so now what we need to do is say, ‘How do we create a sense of efficiency?’ And now, the smart people in life, when you look at these smart entrepreneurs, you go, ‘Wow. How do you deal with so much?’ Because, you know, I’ve written so many books and I’ve conducted so many affairs and people say to me, ‘How do you do it?’ I’ll tell you how I do it. I make a decision once. I touch something once. Now, when I’m touching it, people are going, ‘When is he going to get on with it? Why is he so finicky? Why is he so particular? Why is he so fussy?’ Because I would rather be fussy for five minutes and annoy you than flap about later and then waste five days because I only have – we think we have 365 days in a year. We don’t. We only have a few hours because we have to go to the dentist and get our hair cut and we have to see our family and get the petrol. And when you count all that, how many hours are left to conduct business? Very few.

And so the experts in life make sure that when they touch something, it’s done well. And that’s where the team comes into play. That’s where the teamwork has to happen because if I just sort of do my job well but you don’t, we will go back to square one. You know, and often people think – and that’s why I don’t like actually giving awards to the best employee because no matter how good I am or how good you are, if those around them don’t support it, then we’ve all failed. So there’s no such thing as the best employee. It has got to be the best team. And the team doesn’t work by hugging each other. It sometimes works by strangling each other because someone has got to say, ‘This is not on.’ ‘Oh no, it’s not my fault. I’ll let the manager deal with that. I’ll let the security deal with that.’

And we abdicate. We let somebody else deal with that because we’re not trained to confront or to cajole or to – we’re not trained. And this just comes down to culture. So, you know, it’s a very big process but the punch line is, there’s a lot of money to be made. There’s a lot of fun to be had. The agony and the stress doesn’t come from hard work. It comes from the feeling that my efforts are wasted. That’s where stress comes from or that the person who has obstructed me is nearer to me than my manager who can help me. So stress comes when someone says no to me but the person who’s authorized to say yes is gone and – or far away or overseas or the phone switched off. Now, that’s stress. So we need accessibility. We need decision-making power.

And that’s why I’ve always had fun in business. I love everything I do. The people around me like suppliers and others really have to think hard about what they want. My business or not, because at the end of it, they say, ‘Oh, that was tough.’ And I go, well, it was tough because you didn’t do your job properly in the first place. That’s why it’s tough. Not because I’m tough. But if I ask for a red apple, I expect a red apple. Don’t then fudge and say, ‘Oh, well, sorry.’ So, we need to learn how to demand, how to command, how to insist rather than say, she’ll be right mate. That’s probably the worst thing of the Australian culture, that she’ll be right mate.

Here is the transcript:

Jonar Nader: So what am I saying? I’m saying that the three inputs that are a fair accompli that determine the outcome unarguably, if there’s such a word. Other three balls that come into the funnel, your staff, your quality and your customers. So I’m saying, stop telling your staff. Teach them to the point where they believe, understand, accept and adopt consistently. Quality, I don’t expect anything other than what is promised to me. So I don’t want the best of or this or that and I’m a demanding customer, no. But I just expect what is promised.

So quality to me is delivering on the promise. So please read your brochure. Okay, read other people’s brochures, you know. They’re always absolutely the best. There’s nothing better. Ever since I would shave, apparently I had the best razor in the world and then now they had a two-razor thing and then there was a three thing and I eventually upgraded to the four-blade razor. Now, there’s a fifth one that vibrates. And I thought why don’t you just get a wall filled with them and just scrape your head against the wall and be done with it?

Jonar Nader: Because the ultimate razor, the ultimate. Do you understand the English language? Ultimate means there’s nothing else. Full stop ever. And yet every year, there’s another new ultimate shaver.

Jonar Nader: So, read your own brochures. Do you believe them? Is it true that you will get unsurpassed? Unsurpassed. Right. Quality. Can I show you how most organizations can improve their bottom line by 57 percent? You realize right here, right now if I were at a business school in the US, I would be – it would be a trap door and they would just go and burn me. This guy is nuts. No one can improve by 57 percent. No one can improve by one percent. They’re having to cut offices, sack staff. And I’m saying not only that, you can improve your bottom line. You think Jonar is exaggerating at 57 percent? Well, my consulting company has done this study in the UK, US, New Zealand, Australia and Canada and we’ve looked at manufacturing, motor vehicle, IT, and two others.

And we have worked out that they could have had a 57 percent increase on their bottom line. Unbelievable. I mean, right here, right now, fairyland. Okay? Call me an exaggerator. Make it 10 percent. Go to your accountant, homework number two. And say, ‘Where would we be if in the last three years we had made a 10 percent increase on our net profit?’ Your accountant would say you would be driving a Rolls Royce right now.

Now, how do we do that? There are only five things you need to do or these companies anyway needed to do and that was this. Do what you said you’re going to do properly the first time once. Can you believe that? Companies think that the competitor is outside and all the while, the worst enemy is in-house. And they are their own worst enemy because they are hemorrhaging profits, because they don’t do what they said they’re going to do properly the first time once.

Just think of the last time you bought carpets, curtains, a washing machine, a laser printer, anything. And I bet you, for some reason, you had to pick up a phone and call somebody else to come out again because it was the wrong color or the wrong shape. The label, this, this did not work. Correct? Come back, do it again. Who’s paying for all that petrol and all this time and all the please hold and all that. Hemorrhaging of corporations, they just can’t get it right, a basic simple part number. You fix it at that level. That’s where your competitive problems begin. It’s within. We are hemorrhaging. We don’t have the funds but we can’t measure that because one of the wires you see at the end of the day is too difficult. So we’ll just leave it be.

Well, I’m not here to talk about how to cope with difficult – I’m here to talk about how can we do the genius work. Now, here’s another problem in business. You know, if I were to ask you or any company for that matter, if I were to ask a computer company, how many of these did you sell, they can tell me. IThere’s no doubt they sold a thousand last month, full stop. And I can ask them who bought it. They’ll know. They’ll say Harvey Norman bought 200 and David Jones bought two – whatever. And then if I ask them what post codes. They can tell me the post code. They can tell me male or female. They can say whether they paid on time or not with the cash.

You can tell me anything because in your business, you can measure almost anything. But in your measurement, most corporations forget a column. What I’m saying is there’s a column for everything. Who buys, when they buy, what postcode, how much, profit… There’s a column for everything but there’s always a missing column in corporations that just don’t get it and that missing column is difficult to put there. That’s why it’s missing because it’s an intangible thing. But a very real thing. And that missing column tells me why John Smith or Mary Smith have decided never to walk into your retail establishment again.

Do you have that column for me? You can tell me the last time you sold something to the US business class, how old the person was. Did they pay by Diners or Amex? You’ll know everything. But can you tell me the last time John Smith has decided, ‘I will never walk into that store ever again’? You can’t. And unless you can get to a level of business where you know why someone is not there, it’s like trying to kiss someone who has got bad breath. You’re just going to say, ‘Oh, look. I’ve got a bus to catch.’ You’re not going to explain to them that they have bad breath. And they’ll never know why and many businesses just haven’t got a clue what it’s like to park in a parking station because no, they’ve got the VIP reserved managing director parking spot. Have you got a parking spot as the managing director? So you wouldn’t know what it’s like for me to run around your center trying to find a parking spot. Do you book your own air fares? No, you get your secretary to do it. Do you know how difficult it is? So how can you improve a system when the people who can improve the system have everything smoothly laid out for them? They never have to call their own help desk.

I was once stranded in the US due to some – all sorts of issues and problems and I worked for IBM. I wont’ mention any more brand names than that but the largest travel agency in the world – we had a contract with IBM, 310,000 employees. You can imagine. And I had a – you know, a typical card that I was given. And I said, I need to get from Raleigh, North Carolina. You might say Raleigh but that’s that an American I’m trying to wash out. Raleigh, North Carolina to Sydney. No one could help me. No help desk knew what to do about it because I was a special case.

The moment I mentioned the word IBM, no one could help me. And I called this company, the biggest company. I said, ‘I’m just simply trying to change my ticket. Oh, I’m not asking you to shift India three inches to the left.’

Jonar Nader: Just book a ticket. So, I escalated all the way to the CEO and she took – and she said, ‘I’m the CEO’s PA and I’ll help you.’ She called me back two or three hours later and she said, ‘I’m so sorry. I couldn’t do it.’ Unbelievable. Because who knew this? This is a large corporation. So I’m encouraging you to get out. Call yourself. Call your office one day and hear the background noises. You probably don’t know what the customer can hear. Send a fax to someone you know and have a look at what your fax comes out like at the other end. How many times you get these faxes? They’re indecipherable and the person who sent it says, ‘Well, it looked perfect when I sent it.’ They’ve got a messy fax machine. They’ll never know about it. Why someone chooses never to come back again. Your staff, your quality and your customers. Now, let’s talk …

Here is the transcript:

Jonar Nader: To achieve this objective of charging the customer more and having the customer pay more with pleasure, we need to answer some questions and the first one – the first question is, ‘What is your most important asset?’ What’s one plus one? You didn’t have to think about that. What’s your most important asset? There’s going to be a bit of a debate about that. Does your owner agree with the finance, the accountant agree with marketing? Do the sales people know about this? Like one plus one is two. It’s absorbed. And then, once you’ve sorted that out which could take you months of work because this is not an easy question, I grant you, we go to the next difficult question.

Tricky. The first one was what’s your most important. And now, what’s your most valuable? What’s the difference? Well, I don’t know. But there is a difference. For example, you might say to me, ‘My car is a very important asset.’ But then if the house is on fire, you might grab the photo album. So the house might be an important asset for you but the photo album might be more valuable or you might be stranded somewhere and you have lots of petrol, lots of wood but only three matches. All of a sudden, three cents worth of matches become the most valuable thing. Up to you.

But there is a difference in business generally. First, tell me what is your most important asset. And second, tell me what is your most valuable asset. And if not all of you know this from the cleaner to the receptionist to the owner, I’m sorry, it’s not going to work.

The next question is, if we are to charge the customer more, then really, we are talking about consumers and we had better understand the secrets to modern consumer behavior. And then the question will follow, what are the seven rules or the seven maxims that modern organizations must follow? But first, let’s start with this question. This is a sacrilegious question. How dare anyone ask it because we have been brainwashed into thinking that the bottom line is the most important thing there is. But I’m suggesting to you that maybe there is something more important than the bottom line.

Well, they’ve worked that out at Harvard and elsewhere and again, if you’ve done your MBA …

What’s more important than the bottom line? Well, this is what we are told.

Jonar Nader: They say it’s a triple bottom line. Really, who has done their MBA? You all agree with that. Your triple bottom line. Now, there is merit in this because it says, look, don’t just fuss about your money. Money bottom line isn’t the only thing in the world. That’s very important. But if you’re an organization and you don’t look at the second element of the triple bottom line, the second element being your society, if you don’t contribute to society and help society, if you don’t add any value, to society, society won’t want you. And you see demonstrations in the street now calling for certain organizations to go home. So the triple bottom says quite truthfully and genuinely, of course you must look after your money but also look after where you are. And the third element is please do not pollute the environment. So therefore, it is your finances, society and the environment.

Now, why do we even care about the bottom line? Lazy people care about the bottom line because lazy people, when they’re thinking about the year’s activity in a business, this is what they see. A spaghetti mesh of indecipherable nonsense because none of us can capture a year in a sentence or a year in a number because if you count all the emails, all the phone calls, all the kilometers, all the pieces of paper, all the arguments and discussions and things you’ve done and places you’ve been and invoices you had paid and payroll and – it looks like that because business is quite messy like that.

But the lazy people can’t see the wood for the trees in this spaghetti mesh so they say, ‘Look, I don’t want to know.’ Did we make a profit or didn’t we? Have we increased or haven’t we? And so, the lazy people don’t want to know about that. They just want to know the end result. But that is dangerous because you see, the end result is really a fait accompli. It is a foregone conclusion what your annual end result is going to be. If you can retrace those wires and work out the input. So, the answer to my question, what’s more important than the bottom line? It is the triple top line because it is at the top where things feed. I put that picture up there of this stream because if you lived at the bottom of the stream and you are poisoned and the water is poisoned, what do you do? You can put a sign up that says, ‘Do not drink the local water’. You could get someone in with a fantastic filtration system. You can do all sorts of diversions. Hard work, isn’t it? Wouldn’t it be better to go upstream and find the goon who’s just putting rubbish in your stream and say, ‘Hey, mate. Stop that.’

You see, it’s the input that determines the fait accompli. So what are the inputs that determine your bottom line? Well, I’m here to talk to you about charging the customer more and having the customer pay more with pleasure so therefore, my inputs are three that I’m going to focus about even though there are many. But the three inputs are your staff, your quality and your customers. They’re the three balls that come into the funnel that determine that bottom line issue of being able to charge more.